Erm... Yikes. Political Rant Ahoy!
Jan. 23rd, 2007 10:40 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
stoney321First, I'm changing a little tracking detail in my LJ. Instead of changing colors for fonts to track my "health plan" I'll be inserting color bars. I know this means nothing to y'all, I'm just putting this out there in case you wonder what the Gay Pride pic is. :)
Now on to my rant. Aaaaaaaaaaaand commence to SCROLLING. Hahaha. While I'm terribly excited about Barak Obama potentially running for President (and the Dems have a woman and a Hispanic as contenders - go diversity!) I'm TERRIBLY WORRIED about Mitt Romney throwing his hat in the ring on the Republican side. Don't know who he is? Then clearly you're not from Massachusetts!
Full disclosure to any newbies out there: I am a former member of the Mormon Church. My family is one of the "old" Mormon families, very active in the church and serving in SLC as "General Authorities." (What a title, huh? I am an authority on, well... everything.) My family also contains members of the Fundamentalist sect of polygamists that are being accurately portrayed in the HBO show Big Love. I am also a registered Independent, and have a deep and unabiding hatred of the modern Republican party. Well, John McCain doesn't give me hives. Bob Dole seems like a decent sort, even if he is a curmudgeon. Full disclosure.
Also, D&C stands for Doctrine and Covenants, an open-source scripture held to be the word of God by the Mormon church. Basically, any time the President (prophet) speaks, it's the word of God. You can look things up here. *cough* You can also look up original versions here. Oh, what's that? God's word needed revisions? Noooo!
Now. Mitt Romney WAS (\o/) the governor of Massachusetts. According to![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
anelith, a resident, he's a big fat liar. He wasn't going to push his "family values" agenda on the state, etc. And he did. The big question right now is will he govern from the pulpit if he is elected President? The short answer: hell yes, and be afraid.
I'll have to explain a few things about the Mormons for this to sink in. The LDS church (as it prefers to be called) believes fervently that Jesus Christ is the head of its church. He is living, breathing, and speaks regularly with the church's president, whom they believe is a prophet, just as Noah, Abraham and Moses were prophets. Let that sink in, because it's very important. What Moses commanded, what Abraham commanded, all the teachings and guidelines in the Bible are the tenets of faith and belief for Christians and are obeyed. You toe the line, in other words. That isn't debatable. So... if the head of the LDS church (the "prophet") commands the members to do something, by gum, they'll do it, or they'll be disobeying a direct commandment as sacred as "Thou Shalt Not Kill."
Blacks were not allowed to hold the priesthood in the church, because they "carried the mark of Cain." The "prophet " received a revelation from God in the late 70s that this "commandment" could finally be done away with. That flaky god! This was a HUUUUUGE deal. A small group of people left the church over it. Which... doesn't say good things. BUT. Most members "prayed and found succor" in god's infinite wisdom and obeyed the commandment. Because if you are not following all the LDS church's commandments, you will suffer in the next life. (D&C 11:25) How?
You know those temples the church has? You can't just go into one. I certainly couldn't. Not every Mormon is allowed inside, either. You regularly have meetings with your local bishop (priest) and he interviews you with a series of questions, mostly pertaining to the commandments of the church. Are you obeying them? If not, you cannot have a "temple recommend," which is a pass allowing you inside the temple. Going to the temple and performing the rituals inside (baptism for people who have died, marriage and "sealing" ceremonies for people who have died) is a HUGE PART of an active Mormon's life. This enables you to climb the ladder, so to speak, and get "high up in the kingdom of god" aka, the top tier in heaven at God's literal feet. And maybe be so good and worthy that you can have your own planet and be god over it, too. (D&C 76 55, 59) It is your DUTY as a Mormon to help those who have died receive the blessings of the temple. While you and I might shake our heads at this, it's the very CORNERSTONE of the active Mormon's faith. (Faith without works is dead. D&C 22:2)
How does this affect Mitt Romney? Let's say he becomes President. *shudder* He - as an active member - cannot contradict the Mormon President. HE. CAN. NOT. (D&C 28: 6 "Thou shalt not command him who is at thy head, and at the head of the church.") Let's say there's a bill before Congress regarding benefits to gay partners. He can in NO GOOD CONSCIENCE allow that bill to not get a veto. The Mormon Church is VERY CLEAR that you are your sex BEFORE birth in the "pre-existence." And all that your sex entails, as in, you're a girl, you like boys, period, in God's name, amen. You are rife with sin, otherwise. Which, whatever. They are certainly entitled to their close-minded beliefs, even though I emphatically disagree. But this should not be LEGISLATED.
The church has been very clear that women belong home. WOMEN BELONG HOME. If you are a single mother, you should do your best, obviously, but as soon as you marry (because you should, or that pesky highest kingdom of god thing won't apply) you should STAY HOME and raise your children. While I agree that a parent being home benefits the children, SCREW YOU. No one puts baby in a corner. :)
More insidious, and something casual observers don't recognize is HOW OFTEN THE CHURCH CHANGES ITS STANCE. Joseph Smith, the founder and a Freemason - and who aped most of the Mason's rituals for the temple, but that's neither here nor there at this time - was a big proponent of blacks being full members of the church. Let me remind you that was back in 1832, when NO ONE respected blacks. That's to be commended. And he was the PROPHET of God. Who had God's word. Right? And... when did blacks get the right to be full members? Meaning, when were the heavens opened to them so they could have Eternal life? 1978. So... it was okay to oppose god's word on this one thing back in the day? o_0
Joseph Smith was also "told by god" to have plural wives, aka polygamy. But he wasn't supposed to tell anyone. Only a handful of men. Uh huh. And then in 1892, when Utah was facing being seized by the Federal government and all of their properties and holdings taken from them (and they were and still are a VERY wealthy organization) the prophet got a "revelation" from god saying they would no longer practice polygamy, now open up those federal coffers, kthx.
Oh, and the prophet John Taylor (my cousin's g-grandfather-in-law by marriage) pulled a few men aside and said, no, really god wanted them to keep on being polygamist, just shush about it and go to Southern Utah. And the FLDS chuch was born, and now we have Big Love talking about what's really going on down there. During Brigham Young's presidency, men could be "sealed" (a word which means essentially married for the eternities) to each other. That's... that's not even KNOWN now, because the church re-prints its books every time there's a policy change, and gives the members a new book, which becomes the Word. And they just take it. And it's never talked about again. *shrug*
Jesus has "told" the Mormons what to eat, how much to sleep (D&C 89), exactly how church service should be - and it's the EXACT SAME in any country, in any building (D&C 46), to not worry about their debts (D&C 111:5) - which, btw, Salt Lake City has the HIGHEST RATE of bankruptcy in the US. Jesus Christ has also given the people and specific bodyguards permission to hunt and kill people. (See: Mountain Meadows Massacre and Porter Rockwell.) He gave them a step-by-step plan for ridding your presence of an evil spirit, which was carried out TO THE LETTER in an ep of Big love, which makes me love that show even more. (D&C 24:15)
People laugh and boggle at Pres. George W. Bush's "fanatical" born again beliefs. The literal 6000 years age of the earth, that sort of thing. Well, the Mormons believe there were horses and steel and iron smelted in the US in pre-Columbian America (400 BC to 147 AD to be precise.) The original inhabitants, pre-dating the Myans and Incas, had paved roads, a form of government, HORSES... They're descendants of Jews that fled Jerusalem when the Romans rolled in, about 400 BC. I'll let you history buffs ponder that for a spell. Even though the DNA record shows NO CORRELATION between Native American Indians and Jews. The school BYU has a division dedicated to PROVING these claims, history be damned. My father's friend worked on the Ramses exhibit in the late 80s - he was a devout Mormon and BYU prof. - and they claimed the Egyptians had garments with the same markings the modern Mormon's garments have (those "holy underwear" you've heard about.) Proof that god is telling the Mormons the Right Way. (There were no "sacred garments" found on the mummies of ancient Egypt, beyond the ritual bindings, etc.) MIND BOGGLING.
It also states in the Book of Mormon (Alma 23, 3 Nephi 2) that Native Indians also bore the mark of Cain (dark skin) and when they repented and were good, they became white. THIS IS A BELIEF. Also, the Bible wasn't translated correctly (tell me something I don't know) and Joseph has a newer version that's right. And... has all sorts of bits inserted that confirm his new religion's teachings. But that's not suspect, is it? (D&C 93)
The end of the world is nigh, and the Second Coming will literally happen. But in a completely organized way. Jesus will arrive at Adam-ondi-Ahman, MISSOURI, and all the church leaders will know. (Incidentally, that's the site for the original Garden of Eden. With Adam. And Eve. LITERALLY THE LOCATION.) They will then pull their telephone trees and call their lists, informing all the righteous. (!!!) The devout and worthy priesthood holders (men) will go and receive Christ's instruction for how to wipe the earth clean. I AM NOT MAKING THIS UP. I have been to this spot on a church trip when I was a teen. WOW. Jesus tewtally is all about the organization for destruction. (Um, the DayTimer is a Mormon company. My uncle helped start it. 7 Habits of Highly Successful People, by Stephen Covey? Mormon. Jesus <3 ledgers!)
So... this could be your next President of the US. This could be the beliefs upheld (because again, he HAS TO or he won't obtain Celestial Glory in the highest kingdom of heaven) by the leader of the Free World. And you thought Dubya believed some wacky stuff. This could be the basis for policy decisions. He WILL confer with the Mormon President on decisions. He will make sure of it.
THIS FREAKS ME OUT.
Now on to my rant. Aaaaaaaaaaaand commence to SCROLLING. Hahaha. While I'm terribly excited about Barak Obama potentially running for President (and the Dems have a woman and a Hispanic as contenders - go diversity!) I'm TERRIBLY WORRIED about Mitt Romney throwing his hat in the ring on the Republican side. Don't know who he is? Then clearly you're not from Massachusetts!
Full disclosure to any newbies out there: I am a former member of the Mormon Church. My family is one of the "old" Mormon families, very active in the church and serving in SLC as "General Authorities." (What a title, huh? I am an authority on, well... everything.) My family also contains members of the Fundamentalist sect of polygamists that are being accurately portrayed in the HBO show Big Love. I am also a registered Independent, and have a deep and unabiding hatred of the modern Republican party. Well, John McCain doesn't give me hives. Bob Dole seems like a decent sort, even if he is a curmudgeon. Full disclosure.
Also, D&C stands for Doctrine and Covenants, an open-source scripture held to be the word of God by the Mormon church. Basically, any time the President (prophet) speaks, it's the word of God. You can look things up here. *cough* You can also look up original versions here. Oh, what's that? God's word needed revisions? Noooo!
Now. Mitt Romney WAS (\o/) the governor of Massachusetts. According to
anelith, a resident, he's a big fat liar. He wasn't going to push his "family values" agenda on the state, etc. And he did. The big question right now is will he govern from the pulpit if he is elected President? The short answer: hell yes, and be afraid. I'll have to explain a few things about the Mormons for this to sink in. The LDS church (as it prefers to be called) believes fervently that Jesus Christ is the head of its church. He is living, breathing, and speaks regularly with the church's president, whom they believe is a prophet, just as Noah, Abraham and Moses were prophets. Let that sink in, because it's very important. What Moses commanded, what Abraham commanded, all the teachings and guidelines in the Bible are the tenets of faith and belief for Christians and are obeyed. You toe the line, in other words. That isn't debatable. So... if the head of the LDS church (the "prophet") commands the members to do something, by gum, they'll do it, or they'll be disobeying a direct commandment as sacred as "Thou Shalt Not Kill."
Blacks were not allowed to hold the priesthood in the church, because they "carried the mark of Cain." The "prophet " received a revelation from God in the late 70s that this "commandment" could finally be done away with. That flaky god! This was a HUUUUUGE deal. A small group of people left the church over it. Which... doesn't say good things. BUT. Most members "prayed and found succor" in god's infinite wisdom and obeyed the commandment. Because if you are not following all the LDS church's commandments, you will suffer in the next life. (D&C 11:25) How?
You know those temples the church has? You can't just go into one. I certainly couldn't. Not every Mormon is allowed inside, either. You regularly have meetings with your local bishop (priest) and he interviews you with a series of questions, mostly pertaining to the commandments of the church. Are you obeying them? If not, you cannot have a "temple recommend," which is a pass allowing you inside the temple. Going to the temple and performing the rituals inside (baptism for people who have died, marriage and "sealing" ceremonies for people who have died) is a HUGE PART of an active Mormon's life. This enables you to climb the ladder, so to speak, and get "high up in the kingdom of god" aka, the top tier in heaven at God's literal feet. And maybe be so good and worthy that you can have your own planet and be god over it, too. (D&C 76 55, 59) It is your DUTY as a Mormon to help those who have died receive the blessings of the temple. While you and I might shake our heads at this, it's the very CORNERSTONE of the active Mormon's faith. (Faith without works is dead. D&C 22:2)
How does this affect Mitt Romney? Let's say he becomes President. *shudder* He - as an active member - cannot contradict the Mormon President. HE. CAN. NOT. (D&C 28: 6 "Thou shalt not command him who is at thy head, and at the head of the church.") Let's say there's a bill before Congress regarding benefits to gay partners. He can in NO GOOD CONSCIENCE allow that bill to not get a veto. The Mormon Church is VERY CLEAR that you are your sex BEFORE birth in the "pre-existence." And all that your sex entails, as in, you're a girl, you like boys, period, in God's name, amen. You are rife with sin, otherwise. Which, whatever. They are certainly entitled to their close-minded beliefs, even though I emphatically disagree. But this should not be LEGISLATED.
The church has been very clear that women belong home. WOMEN BELONG HOME. If you are a single mother, you should do your best, obviously, but as soon as you marry (because you should, or that pesky highest kingdom of god thing won't apply) you should STAY HOME and raise your children. While I agree that a parent being home benefits the children, SCREW YOU. No one puts baby in a corner. :)
More insidious, and something casual observers don't recognize is HOW OFTEN THE CHURCH CHANGES ITS STANCE. Joseph Smith, the founder and a Freemason - and who aped most of the Mason's rituals for the temple, but that's neither here nor there at this time - was a big proponent of blacks being full members of the church. Let me remind you that was back in 1832, when NO ONE respected blacks. That's to be commended. And he was the PROPHET of God. Who had God's word. Right? And... when did blacks get the right to be full members? Meaning, when were the heavens opened to them so they could have Eternal life? 1978. So... it was okay to oppose god's word on this one thing back in the day? o_0
Joseph Smith was also "told by god" to have plural wives, aka polygamy. But he wasn't supposed to tell anyone. Only a handful of men. Uh huh. And then in 1892, when Utah was facing being seized by the Federal government and all of their properties and holdings taken from them (and they were and still are a VERY wealthy organization) the prophet got a "revelation" from god saying they would no longer practice polygamy, now open up those federal coffers, kthx.
Oh, and the prophet John Taylor (my cousin's g-grandfather-in-law by marriage) pulled a few men aside and said, no, really god wanted them to keep on being polygamist, just shush about it and go to Southern Utah. And the FLDS chuch was born, and now we have Big Love talking about what's really going on down there. During Brigham Young's presidency, men could be "sealed" (a word which means essentially married for the eternities) to each other. That's... that's not even KNOWN now, because the church re-prints its books every time there's a policy change, and gives the members a new book, which becomes the Word. And they just take it. And it's never talked about again. *shrug*
Jesus has "told" the Mormons what to eat, how much to sleep (D&C 89), exactly how church service should be - and it's the EXACT SAME in any country, in any building (D&C 46), to not worry about their debts (D&C 111:5) - which, btw, Salt Lake City has the HIGHEST RATE of bankruptcy in the US. Jesus Christ has also given the people and specific bodyguards permission to hunt and kill people. (See: Mountain Meadows Massacre and Porter Rockwell.) He gave them a step-by-step plan for ridding your presence of an evil spirit, which was carried out TO THE LETTER in an ep of Big love, which makes me love that show even more. (D&C 24:15)
People laugh and boggle at Pres. George W. Bush's "fanatical" born again beliefs. The literal 6000 years age of the earth, that sort of thing. Well, the Mormons believe there were horses and steel and iron smelted in the US in pre-Columbian America (400 BC to 147 AD to be precise.) The original inhabitants, pre-dating the Myans and Incas, had paved roads, a form of government, HORSES... They're descendants of Jews that fled Jerusalem when the Romans rolled in, about 400 BC. I'll let you history buffs ponder that for a spell. Even though the DNA record shows NO CORRELATION between Native American Indians and Jews. The school BYU has a division dedicated to PROVING these claims, history be damned. My father's friend worked on the Ramses exhibit in the late 80s - he was a devout Mormon and BYU prof. - and they claimed the Egyptians had garments with the same markings the modern Mormon's garments have (those "holy underwear" you've heard about.) Proof that god is telling the Mormons the Right Way. (There were no "sacred garments" found on the mummies of ancient Egypt, beyond the ritual bindings, etc.) MIND BOGGLING.
It also states in the Book of Mormon (Alma 23, 3 Nephi 2) that Native Indians also bore the mark of Cain (dark skin) and when they repented and were good, they became white. THIS IS A BELIEF. Also, the Bible wasn't translated correctly (tell me something I don't know) and Joseph has a newer version that's right. And... has all sorts of bits inserted that confirm his new religion's teachings. But that's not suspect, is it? (D&C 93)
The end of the world is nigh, and the Second Coming will literally happen. But in a completely organized way. Jesus will arrive at Adam-ondi-Ahman, MISSOURI, and all the church leaders will know. (Incidentally, that's the site for the original Garden of Eden. With Adam. And Eve. LITERALLY THE LOCATION.) They will then pull their telephone trees and call their lists, informing all the righteous. (!!!) The devout and worthy priesthood holders (men) will go and receive Christ's instruction for how to wipe the earth clean. I AM NOT MAKING THIS UP. I have been to this spot on a church trip when I was a teen. WOW. Jesus tewtally is all about the organization for destruction. (Um, the DayTimer is a Mormon company. My uncle helped start it. 7 Habits of Highly Successful People, by Stephen Covey? Mormon. Jesus <3 ledgers!)
So... this could be your next President of the US. This could be the beliefs upheld (because again, he HAS TO or he won't obtain Celestial Glory in the highest kingdom of heaven) by the leader of the Free World. And you thought Dubya believed some wacky stuff. This could be the basis for policy decisions. He WILL confer with the Mormon President on decisions. He will make sure of it.
THIS FREAKS ME OUT.
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2007-01-23 04:41 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-01-23 04:45 pm (UTC)YIKES with his "unborn child pain" act. YIKES. (Nevada has a democrat senator that's also Mormon, and he seems... better than most.)
no subject
Date: 2007-01-23 04:48 pm (UTC)"cough" Or Michigan...
no subject
Date: 2007-01-23 04:52 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-01-23 05:00 pm (UTC)I think people who are not familiar with LDS really need to know exactly what this "church" which tries to present itself as just another variation on mainstream Christianity is really all about, so thank you for posting this.
no subject
Date: 2007-01-23 05:01 pm (UTC)Jesus also says to give me a pie, since he has decreed it National Pie Day. He said it has to be pumpkin, or that chariot will only be mildly gay instead.
Brava my darling, Stoney. *awaits pie*
p.s. I was not feeling like going to work, but now I'm all, "I get to go be a part of a sane, inclusive religious hierarchy! Yay God!"
no subject
Date: 2007-01-23 05:02 pm (UTC)I hope Romney gets his ass royally kicked in the primaries.
no subject
Date: 2007-01-23 05:12 pm (UTC)During Brigham Young's presidency, men could be "sealed" (a word which means essentially married for the eternities) to each other.
What a scintillating tidbit! We humans are always changing our minds, even when it's "God's word".
Thanks so much for this information about Mitt Romney, and the implications of a potential presidency by a serious follower of the LDS order. I had no idea.
no subject
Date: 2007-01-23 05:14 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-01-23 05:17 pm (UTC)Great post, sweetie! BTW, thank goodness, Mitt Romney is no longer our governor as of this month! We now have Deval Patrick -- I would have said last summer he was an extremely long shot simply because he is so very liberal. What a change, huh? YAY!
I tagged a great editorial about Mitt's amazing ability to shapeshift to suit his needs in my del.icio.us page. Look for "Romney vs. Romney". I'd link to it directly but the Boston Globe is funny about that sometimes.
no subject
Date: 2007-01-23 05:22 pm (UTC)I've got a store of resons not to vote for Mitt Romney none of which have to do with his Mormonism, but am suspicious of Mormons (as a group, more than individuals) on principle. There's stuff like hearing the oldest woman I knew as a child complain about her mother's sewing machine being stolen when they had to lighten their wagon load; they'd wrapped the whole pile of gear in a spare canvass and wrote their name on the package, but it was picked through and the canvas replaced when they got back. I was waiting to hear stories like that from the Antiques Roadshow experts when they were in SLC and piles of early 19th century Pennsylvania furniture showed up.
Julia, thing about living in a historically unchurched NW is the LDS incursion has been very visible
no subject
Date: 2007-01-23 05:22 pm (UTC)Again thanks for the info, some serious food for thought
no subject
Date: 2007-01-23 05:22 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-01-23 05:30 pm (UTC)As
Also, I heard somewhere that Romney is not only an active member of the LDS church, but he was/is a bishop. Now, I don't know much about how that works in the Mormon church, but I would assume one would have to be very devout and very obedient in order to attain that position.
Thanks for the informative post. I read "Under the Banner of Heaven" last year and was completely enthralled. It touched on many, but not all of the issues you mention and was a great read. Months prior to that, my friend and I had traveled out west and drive through, and I believe at one point stopped at, Colorado City and St. George. At the time I had no idea that those places had such high populations of FLDS members. Very strange religion and totally out there. It must be nice to legitimize your wandering eye by claiming God told you it was okay. That's some scary stuff.
no subject
Date: 2007-01-23 05:42 pm (UTC)*sigh* Editing for errors. Third time's the charm.
Date: 2007-01-23 05:48 pm (UTC)Let's just say that the People's Republic of Massachusetts was so happy to see the back of him, that his former lieutenant governor had her ass kicked by an African-American, unapologetically liberal Democrat in a state that has (surprisingly) traditionally practiced a bizarre form of homegrown checks and balances by electing a Democratic legislature and a Republican governor.
Then Romney turns around and bashes the very people that elected him to his "stepping stone" governorship in the first place. OOoooooo, so not smart. Especially since there are so many people in this state that are already willing to call him a useless, lying, sack of shit.
Personally, I don't think the religious right nutjobs are gonna let Romney go too far in the primaries. Honestly? I don't see him getting even close to the White House.
As for people who are willing to overlook the Mormon part (which I agree is a huge mistake to do so, but not being Mormon, people wouldn't accept that statement from me), as one recent editorial put it: "The sort of people who don't care whether a candidate is Mormon are the sort of people who live in Massachusetts," (http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/opinion/balance/stories/011907dnediharrop.502f8e3.html) the same people Mitt's been dissin' out on his little ol' campaign trail.
Yeah, fuck you too, Mitt. And go to hell.
You'll be interested to know that Jesus's General (another ex-Mormon) has also been all over Mitt and the Mormons. (http://patriotboy.blogspot.com/2006_11_26_patriotboy_archive.html#116457246837438696)
I can't wait until Asshole Major goes down in flames. I can't wait.
no subject
Date: 2007-01-23 05:54 pm (UTC)If you're interested, I've tagged all of my religion posts - they mostly concern the Mormon church and polygamy.
*totally does a cheerleader roll of pomppoms into a herkey for God* \o/
*squish*
no subject
Date: 2007-01-23 05:57 pm (UTC)So you don't KNOW. There's a history of persecution, so any opposite thought to the Church's teachings harkens up the days of old where men were dragged from their houses and killed in front of children.
...which isn't happening any more, so is moot, imo.
no subject
Date: 2007-01-23 05:59 pm (UTC)And yeah - religious terrorism. ALbeit with a smile and a jello-fruit dish. :D
no subject
Date: 2007-01-23 05:59 pm (UTC)Gay Marriage started in the Mormon church. HAHAHAHAHA. *is killed by sekrit police*
no subject
Date: 2007-01-23 06:01 pm (UTC)Your party being declared mostly refers to primaries - the singling out of tickets for the final vote.
no subject
Date: 2007-01-23 06:02 pm (UTC)*zooms to article*
no subject
Date: 2007-01-23 06:04 pm (UTC)!!!!
????
no subject
Date: 2007-01-23 06:04 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-01-23 06:04 pm (UTC)