Full Cocked

[stoney321]

Because who wants to go off half-cocked? So yesterday, it came to light in the US that a Russian LJ blogger posted a live execution video on his LJ a few days ago. NPR reported this yesterday afternoon, even though it happened a few days ago. Last night, I saw many people's posts of outrage: How could LJ let that be shown, but the Snarry pic was removed? How can you stay on this service? And so on and so on.

Here's the important words:" LJ LET THAT BE SHOWN." Well... yes. And no. Do you honestly think that LJ has a filtering program reading journals and all their posts - ALL 13 million journals? *cough* Why would they add a tattle-tell button on LJs, then? Someone got pissed off here in the US/Europe (probably the US) about the Snarry pic (MsScribe?) and reported it, and several other posts/images. The Russian blog system, while under the umbrella of LJ isn't really RUN by LJ. It's run by SUP. SUP is extremely controversial in Russia for a multiplicity of reasons: 1) the internet is heavily monitored by the state in Russia as are MOST news sources like TV, radio, papers, and SUP isn't a part of the state controlled internet, 2) LJ pretty much = internet in Russia, which is under US laws, right? and 3) SUP is headed by Anton Nosik, a Jew and Israeli. And a large portion of Russians don't like Jews. Or Israelis. There has been a tremendous upsurge of Neo-Nazism in the former USSR. The Kremlin is anti-freedom of speech. The Russian LJers were TERRIFIED (and rightly so) that LJ would be selling their personal info to the Kremlin/KGB. LJ assured them that would never happen. (They have stuck to that promise. Because they're not really doing ANYTHING with the Russian LJs)

Anton Nosik (his livejournal for those that speak Russian is dolboeb which actually translates into dick head!) is anti-Kremlin, anti-censorship. Again, he's also a very controversial guy - he built up underground newspapers advocating freedom of speech, access to the internet, etc, from scratch. He's very Russian. He's not some MIT nerd that created something "cool." He's not a highly educated, smooth operator. As evidenced by his crappy statement to the press about the video: "People post what they feel must be posted, and write what they feel must be written. There is a list of things that LiveJournal users agree not to do, but posting pictures of an execution is not on the list. There is a clause forbidding comments that incite ethnic hatred, but whether it applies to this particular video is an open question."

Clearly a video that shows a live execution-style murder, a live HATE CRIME murder should be understood that it's WRONG. Disgusting. Unacceptable. I think we can all agree to that. Please also know that the world's journalists are pushing for all videos/information to be allowed to be posted as a way to show what is happening in the world (multiple orgs on line - that is just one example.) Can we sit in our safe houses and say one is fine and the other is not? Sure we can. And we can crank the AC up and go to the supermarket and etc. etc. But how many of you knew that Neo-Nazism is on the upsurge in Russia? How many of you knew that 7 of these types of killings A DAY are happening in Russia? You (and I) do now. Just like how we found out about the Taliban's public executions - by leaked videos online that hit the news media.

LJ has handed the reins of the internet over to SUP - they announced to Russian users back in October that this would happen. Russian bloggers were very upset by it; they want the services/protection of LJ. But... it was a done deal. SUP has its own support and abuse team. You can imagine how efficient they are.

My stance is this (and I will NEVER tell anyone through guilt or other bullying how they should spend their fucking blogging time or dollars. You're a grown up. Do what you want.) execution videos are bad, mm'kay? I do not support hate crimes, mm'kay? If I stick around on LJ, that does not mean the terrorists win. I am not going to call the other blogging sites Safe Zones. *cough* The video was ORIGINALLY hosted by a service like YouTube and embedded in the dude's LJ. Where's the outcry that YouTube/etc. is implicit with hate crimes and murder? LJ didn't (and maybe STILL doesn't) KNOW about the video. Hell, most of YOU didn't know about it. And we bloggers know events faster than the admins at LJ, you can bet your sweet patootie on that one. Also, 6A just launched their largest/most important (to them) software the day the video came out, MoveableType 4. They're probably all on red alert for that rollout/potential bugs/etc. You know: paying attention to where the money is coming in, because that's how they think.

LJ is trying in their corporate way to allow fandom some level of what we've been doing. Just because ponderosa's pics were pulled, her journal banned doesn't mean that LJ hates teh ghey and LOVES the hate and murder. That is beyond a jump to conclusions, that is a freaking Evil Knievel leap across the Grand Canyon, imo. Because three years ago, when that blogger from Alaska allegedly had her mother killed and took part in some of it - then came home and blogged about having killed her, that didn't make LJ complicit with murder THEN either. In fact, her blog was used in court as evidence. She was acquitted, actually.

Here are some links for reading so you can draw your own conclusions (just make sure your conclusions are of age, ahaha.)

• Radio Free Europe/Russia posts about Livejournal past and current video issue
• Russian LJers learn about the SUP deal
• Russian LJers complaints to LJ about SUP deal, LJ's comments on their soon to be Pontius Pilate stance
• More info re: LJ --> SUP
• SUP, anarchism, and the anti-semitic feelings of Russian bloggers re: Anton Nossik
• SUP's FAQ page (Note how here it explains that this is an INDEPENDENT support service from LJ (profiles, basic text posts hosted in SF, vids, pics hosted in Russia)
• Article about how Russia is trying to find where the video originated: US, Russia, etc. (which servers)
• Six Apart only has 155 employees WORLDWIDE. None of the listed employees are Russian, btw. (.pdf file)

There will be NO angry yelling/finger pointing allowed in this post. If you want to have a calm, rational discussion about any of this, yes please! (And much love to romanyg for originally bringing this to light.)
crossposted to IJ, GJ

[ETA: Sat. night]

• We may not be getting new info out of Russia due to a bill that may be passed by Putin where discussion of extremist activities warrants the same punishment as the extreme activity. (Wow. Remember, we're dealing with the Russian gov't on this one.)
• Also, we may not be hearing anything more from the authorities, because they secretly agree with the Neo-Nazis (read the right sidebar.)
• I think that we'll see something soon from the SOVA Center, which tracks racism/hate crimes (as well as other functions) and keeps the world abreast of these issues. Their Website.
• This blog collects news from other Russians'/Ukranians' blogs. The bar at the right is routinely updated. Note how many of the news sources from the people come from LJ posts.

[ETA Sun. AM]:

• On Kommersant.com The poster is named, and his username is also identified. He apparently has multiple journals. I have reported the post to Abuse. WARNING: the beheading video is on the user's journal. Click at your own risk.
• The BBC has reported that authorities in "foreign countries" have been notified about the material on their servers. This could mean Europe, South Africa or San Franscico for 6A servers.

Comments

[illcoveryou-x.livejournal.com]

*shakes head*

I'm leaving for vacation for 6 days tomorrow.. and I'm kind of afraid as to how much stuff is going to happen while I'm away. I've got a bad feeling about all of this.

[ladycat777.livejournal.com]

THANK YOU.

No one's saying that it wasn't horrible. It god damn is. But just because there's anger at LJ over something else means that they are somehow culpable here. They aren't. It sucks, but they aren't.

[marenfic.livejournal.com]

I appreciate the information. Thanks for doing the research.

[harmonyfb.livejournal.com]

Hmmm. I'm ambivalent on the good/bad of posting such videos. I think it's vitally important that people know exactly what's going on in the world, and not just what the government wants them to know. That includes the ugly stuff as well as the beautiful stuff, you know?

[nicole-anell.livejournal.com]

Thank you so much for your research and take on this. I found the story horrifying but holy fuck does this have Nothing To Do With Potter Porn.

[liz-marcs.livejournal.com]

Yes, yes, and more yes. When I first saw this last night, I was wondering about the frothing at the mouth I remember when LJ turned over Russian operations to SUP. I also remember the huuuuuuuge outcry when that happened (It made the current wanks very, very small...) I couldn't read Russian, but there were quite a few Russians writing English posts to explain to other LJers their stance. I read quite a few of those and found them educational and enlightening.

It's scary how this "social network" of ours may be a lifeline to people in countries where the state controls the horizontal and the verticle and you have to work around state-run firewalls to get to the outside world.

As for posting execution videos online....as a human being I'm all, "Errrrrr...." And Christ knows I won't watch one.

As an ex-reporter, however, I also see the merit of pointing out they exist and that they're online. I can also see the merit of having people aware of them (or maybe *cringe* even seeing them). I think people do need to know that this shit is going on in the world. They also need to know why, who, and how. They also need to know that there's a shitload that the news doesn't tell you and that sometimes you have to go look for information (think of it as legal stealing) if you really need to be informed.

Frankly, I'm on dolbeob's side here. I think his reasoning was good. And much as I don't like the fact the video was public, that is hardly his fault. He didn't participate in the killing or in making the video. He didn't even upload it to a video service. He embedded the video for the sole purpose of bringing awareness to the very, very serious problem of lawlesness (from the mob and from hate groups) in Russia. What's moe, it's not even a new problem. Russia's been having these problems off-and-on for a long, long time now.

[that_mireille]

Thank you for providing some context for this video.

[stoney321.livejournal.com]

I wouldn't worry too much about it - I just saw multiple posts on my flists about this, and felt the need to address my opinion.

Have a LOVELY vacation - I'm fairly certain LJ will still be here when you get back. ;)

[stoney321.livejournal.com]

You know who we should be angry/appalled/furious at? THE GUY THAT MURDERED TWO PEOPLE. O_O

<3

[stoney321.livejournal.com]

*SQUISH* You bet. Also, I have a fabulous restaurant for us to eat at when you come.

...bring stretchy-waist pants. :D

[stoney321.livejournal.com]

Well, to be honest, I'm not a fan AT ALL of those sorts of videos, either. I refuse to watch anything that shows actual people being harmed, be it "Jackass" or a news clipping on CNN or slowing down and peering at a wreck on the side of the road.

I'm like you: I want to know what's going on so I can take action. I don't necessarily want to SEE it.

*hugs you*

[stoney321.livejournal.com]

*LOVES ON YOU*

Yeah - these two situations aren't related, from my viewpoint. If I find more links about this - they seem to have stopped coming out of Russia - I'll add them here. Thanks for reading. (and not crucifying me)

[stoney321.livejournal.com]

I had a STRONG SUSPICION that you would be on the side of journalism/real news/real reports. *loves*

We're talking about the KGB here, not the right to view images that are a turn on. Your line about our social networking being the ONLY lifeline for other countries is important: we have it VERY GOOD here and we have a tendency to put our own mindset/jumping off point on other people/cultures and they are struggling to get where we were with USENET back in the 80s!

The fact that all of the Russian media is reporting this from an "Anton Nosik, THE JEW, is helping people kill Caucasians and Asians" is something people need to take into account.

(And where's the outcry about Australia selling URANIUM to Putin? Oh, that's right. We're too busy focusing on other things and also NO ONE HERE KNOWS ABOUT IT.)

Oh, Liz. I heart you.

[stoney321.livejournal.com]

You bet. As I mentioned above, any new links I can find regarding this, I'll add to the post. We all need to be informed, you know?

[fishsanwitt]

Thank you for this information.

[beadbeauty.livejournal.com]

Ignorance is bliss in my case. It's disturbing that these videos are out there... it's more disturbing that people want to watch it... but I just ...
don't... know what to say. I don't watch the news. I am just turning my head now.

[tabaqui]

Exactly. That vid - which i didn't see - has nothing to do with Potter pr0n. Good lord. And frankly, as ugly and horrible as it is, i think those things need to see the light of day. People connect with an image more than the written word. Hearing about 'honor killings' is one thing - seeing some woman *stoned to death* and the crowds reactions all around is another and, to me, makes for a more visceral and long-lasting impression.

And anything people can do to get stuff like that stuck into the public conscious for more than ten minutes is *good*. Not nice, not pretty, not *comfortable*. But necessary.

It's like seeing the grinning baboons who're standing around under the lynched bodies of young black men. It hits you in the gut, it makes you sick, it makes that whole situation *so much more real*.

I don't think people need to watch and post and 'revel' in this stuff, but hiding it or not showing it is a disservice to the people who suffered and/or died.

IMO, of course. Thanks for all the links.

[that_mireille]

Exactly, and when I saw this (yesterday? the day before? Whenever it started turning up) I couldn't find anything that said *why* it was being posted--and posting something to say, "Hey, this is going on, and people should know about it," is, to me, vastly different to "Heh, cool, they're killing people."

Neither one makes me want to go and look at the video.

[stoney321.livejournal.com]

Same here, on both points.

[stoney321.livejournal.com]

Absolutely!

[stoney321.livejournal.com]

HI TIFF. Yeah - you can just scroll on past this. It's a hotbed of argument for people around here - but it has no bearing on your use of LJ, etc.

How you doon? Come make me lunch I'm staaaaaahvin.

[stoney321.livejournal.com]

Right, right. People didn't understand what was REALLY going on in the South until Jet and Ebony posted the pictures of Emmitt Till. Do I want to view those pics? Absolutely not. Have I? Yes. And it made me understand so much more about the South's past.

And you're absolutely right: this has NOOOOOTHING to do with Potter pr0n. IMO. :D

[marenfic.livejournal.com]

I cannot wait.

I have a pair of drawstring pants I will bring just for this restaurant.

Also, weighing in on the ethics of showing these types of videos for news purposes: I understand the arguments for it, but I cannot stomach them and think they can do more harm than good on a psychological level. I know that beheading a person is a *very awful thing* without actually watching it done. It reeks of the most prurient kind of rubber-necking to me, and I can't imagine being the friend or family of some hapless victim who has their death sensationalized visually. I particularly don't want to come upon them unaware (like on the front page of Yahoo or some other news source without having to click a link acknowledging what I'm about to expose myself to). That said, I think that putting it out there, if thoughtful and carefully done, is defensible in some instances.

I just wouldn't watch it.

[a2zmom.livejournal.com]

I was under the (apparently false) impression that LJ was aware that was being posted.

I agree that LJ can't possibly police the millions of blogs out there. Further more, in some ways it is important that people know that this is occurring and being filmed for entertainment purposes. I, however, choose not to watch.

[tabaqui]

Exactly. On both points.
:)