fun time poll [about Mormon teachings] for your midweek buzzuh

[stoney321]

It'll make sense in a minute. So, in doing rewrites, I'm punching up a little section about how Mormons aren't really Christians and why (because of how they view Christ as their literal brother and how any good Mormon can become a god, God was once a Mormon guy on another planet, etc. etc.) and remembered a story of when I learned in church how Jesus... came about. Ahem. Poll time!

[Poll #1614124]

So! This'll be fun to find out about. I remember it being VERY WEIRD that this old man was telling us all this story on the traditional "Christmas story" day of church. I was freaked out. Then he started crying, and honestly, that freaked me out more, how "beautiful" it was that this virgin was consummating her love of her god in such a way.

HOW ABOUT GOD JUST CRACKS HIS HEAD OPEN LIKE ZEUS DID THAT ONE TIME? A lot less trouble, imo. Boy Kitteh (Smudge) is perched on my shoulder awaiting your reply.

[ETA] Oh, and as always, please feel free to comment with why you voted the way you did, etc. etc. Discussion is the word of the day today!

Comments

[flake-sake.livejournal.com]

I don't know, considering in the christian version he magically force insaminated her, the concept of him actually physically raping her doesn't seem like such a stretch.

[stoney321.livejournal.com]

I think that the general consensus of how the insemination "happened" in the Christian world is just a magical handwave. Which, still, I agree with you that it's a crappy thing to do to someone engaged to another man. But that's never seemed to bug anyone in charge of Christianity. (Which is a whoooooooole 'nother kettle of worms.)

Thanks for participating!

[ladycyndra.livejournal.com]

Blew my mind! Because I had no idea that's what they believe. o_o Learn something new everyday!

[kita0610.livejournal.com]

Uhm.

o0

What?

[kita0610.livejournal.com]

Wait..wait. Ok, I'm obvs. not a Xian, but I always understood that Mary wasn't engaged to Joseph until AFTER she got knocked up by god, and this was bc Joseph wanted to save her from whatever horrible shit happened to little girls who got knocked up outside of marriage back in the day. I didn't even think they were uh, dating.

What do I know. I'll be over here, making the goyishe nachas face.

[stoney321.livejournal.com]

Yeah. I grew up thinking that was how it was. BIG SHOCK when I mentioned that in a friend's church once. Uh....

[stoney321.livejournal.com]

In repsonse to above, too: No, Mary and Joseph were engaged. Mary got knocked up by God, which caused a scandal, which made people think Joseph was "such a good dude" for sticking by her side, and GOOD HELL.

Yeah, no matter how you look at it, Mary gets the raw end of the deal.

[brutti-ma-buoni.livejournal.com]

Just to clarify my non-insanity in responses. Not a Christian, not a believer. I don't believe in the incarnation or the divinity of Christ, so some guy (call him God if you will) actually having sex and making said baby? Makes more sense than the alternative.

It's pretty crappy as a religious position, though, tbh.

There are some very funny medieval plays (well, at least one, I think it's part of the York mystery cycle) which have Joseph finding out Mary's pregnant and being distinctly disbelieving at the whole 'son of god, miraculous child, virgin birth' thing. Which doesn't mean they were not believers, but at least allows space for the buzzuh moment...

[stoney321.livejournal.com]

Yeah, Mary gets the shaft no matter how you tweak the tale, right? Um, literally in the LDS sense. :)

[captainofidiots.livejournal.com]

One of my best friends was raised Mormon, so I'd get to hear lots of wonderful stories. It doesn't get any less creepy, though.

[entrenous88.livejournal.com]

Ew. Ew because I'm guessing it gets used as justification for all those teen and child bride things, like the perpetrators insisting, "I'm following in God's ways! Literally!"

Ew. And wow. The whole godlike complex that's possible for men in that faith. Yikes.

And the whole thing about Christ visiting the Native Americans, that I swear I saw in some film when I was four (I wish the hell could remember where, or why) is Mormon doctrine too, right?

[stoney321.livejournal.com]

I think the creepiest part was this old man weeping about the beauty of God and this virgin teenager. O_O

[stoney321.livejournal.com]

UH HUH. Ding ding ding ding! Give Entrenous a prize for being the most intuitive here.

Godlike complex - when they think they literally will BE gods, does it get called something beyond a complex?

That is! And you probably watched The Godmakers. Was it animated? (It's on YouTube.)

[soundingsea.livejournal.com]

Um... ew. I mean, the Holy Ghost flying his bird self around her and poof! Virgin is preggers... bad enough. But.. so.. do they not have the doctrine of the Virgin Birth, then?

[evamagick.livejournal.com]

WHAT IS THIS I DON'T EVEN

Now, Mormonism has brought me some weird shit, but this is like pagan belief weird shit! I'M pagan and I don't even buy this crap! Whaaaaaaaat?! Grown up people who know how to dress themselves and go to the bathroom like civilized humans believe this?! HOW?

[stoney321.livejournal.com]

LOL the word "startle" always has me flashing back to South Park. :D

LUNCH! I think I'll make a grilled roast beef and provolone sammich. Or some pad thai noodles. FOOOOOD.

I WAS INTERESTED IN SAMMICHES ALWAYS. Describe the components of this miracle of foodstuffs, yea verily!

[stoney321.livejournal.com]

OH. And the argument the LDS church has against it having been the Holy Ghost is that once you are baptized, you get the "holy ghost" within, which would result in you becoming pregnant.

...WOW.

And yes, she's still a Virgin because God Peen doesn't split the hymen and taint the area. WHAT.

[stoney321.livejournal.com]

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA. Omg, your comment is making me lol because I KNOW, RIGHT!?

[sheafrotherdon.livejournal.com]

Me too!

I also always thought that he magically planted a fully formed tiny tiny tiny tiny baby in her, rather than getting down with some magical sperm. I mean, he's God, so he can do it however he wants.

This amused me when, years later, I discovered that no one saw how conception actually happened (under a microscope, I mean) until the 1820s, and before that people in the West thought that men shot hundreds of fully formed tiny tiny babies into women, who then baked them.

[flake-sake.livejournal.com]

I think it's a crappy thing to do to anyone. In no version of the story Maria is asked if she wants to donate her uterus to the cause, she's just told. All these skydaddy religions end up being crap for women, sometimes more, sometimes less.

[entrenous88.livejournal.com]

Urk, good point. Is it all men, or more men who have achieved a certain status? It sounds almost, I don't know, Greek mythology like, people getting godlike status through some exciting blend of trials and magical burning in fires or something.

It was live action! And I thought it was a regular -- in that I mean, random Protestant evangelizing -- Christian film, until I was at least ten, and I was like, "Wait, Christ didn't swing out to the New World after his resurrection and have a chat with tribal leaders? That's not in the bible anywhere?"

I can't actually imagine why I would have seen the thing, but so, so very odd. Though I kind of wish that when I was older and lived in Western NY, I had gone to Palmyra to see the wacky special effects Mormon show.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_tallian_/]

So ... Mary wasn't a virgin, then? I mean, PIV = not virgin, right?

OH WAIT MIRACLE NEVERMIND.

[menomegirl.livejournal.com]

I've always thought the whole virgin birth thing was just part of a fictional book written by men a long time ago and not much different than a book of fairy tales. Because really. She turned up with child before she was married but hey, it was all okay with everyone because an " angel " came along and told her it was " God " that did it. And people bought that? I wonder how many bridges they sold that day.

On the other hand, the tiny part of me that's still Catholic despite the gross lapse on my part, read this: LDS teaches that God showed up and had physical sex with Mary - like, climbed on her, thrust, orgasmed, magical God-sperm to Mary-egg happenings. and freaked right the fuck out.

They actually teach that?

Dude. That's fucked up.

[stoney321.livejournal.com]

ANd how he wanted was to smack it down, flip around, oh no!

...I know you don't know this, but my sister and I were talking about a creepy Japanese movie she's working on that has THIS VERY PLOT. But instead of tiny babies, they're alien geckos. That go in your nose and make you an alien gecko. o_0

(And the two stories aren't that different, huh?)

[stoney321.livejournal.com]

Men who achieve a certain status. It's very much like the Greek path to godhood for a select few. And their women get to be goddesses alongside them! in polygamous relationships, of course. Pleh.

OH THAT'S RIGHT!!! Palmyra! They have a show they perform every year (July 26th, Pioneer Day) and it's been filmed for people to watch, all about the story of Joseph and how the Golden Plates came to be and what they're all about. I bet that's what you've seen, the Book of Mormon pageant!