I'm really interested in what you think about this

[stoney321]

I don't know if the recent shooting at a courthouse in Tyler, TX (an hour from where I live) made national news, but it's all over the media here. In case not, a man opened fire on people coming out of a courthouse, upset with a verdict, killed three, and wounded several. A man with a concealed weapons license opened fire and wounded the gunman, but was killed in the process.


I'll preface this with the following: guns scare the shit out of me. As they should, right? I also am a marksman with a .22, which means out of 200 attempts, I'll hit the bullseye over 170 times. Handguns? No. Fired them a few times, and the awesome power makes me need to pee and tuck my prehensile tail between my legs. (I don't actually have a tail. Hee!) I also grew up in a family of girls, and my father (who had enough of guns and death in Vietnam and while growing up on a farm in the mountains with black bears and coyotes) didn't have any guns in the house.

My husband has a rating of sniper with all guns. Meaning, the target thing? 198 out of 200. He has a concealed weapons license. He had to go through several courses to learn gun laws, responsibility, a psychological background check, yadda yadda. He hunts, he goes to the gun range for fun, and he has guns in my house. At first I yelled, cried, screamed, "there will be NO guns in my home." And he bought a gun safe with a keypad and keylock. And then he bought locks for the guns. They fit on the trigger, so you can't squeeze off a round without the tumbler combination selected. And we've educated our kids about gun safety. They have no idea how to get to dad's guns. Ammo is in our separate fire safe.

But I'm still scared of guns. As I should be.

That being said, my thoughts about accepting guns in my home is that regionally, guns are okay. This is Texas, after all. My dad was a farm boy from Utah, so what the hell did he know about "prying it from my cold, dead fingers?" I have Alamo blood in my family line. He grew up with a shotgun and rifle to protect the cattle from wolves and coyotes. Or to put an animal out of it's misery, should the need arise.

But I live in the city. According to recent stats on Dallas, TX, we are the crime capital/murder capital of the US. Yay, team! Lots of gun-for-hire kind of murder around here. Lots of folks with money that other people want. In our old neighborhood close to downtown, it was a weird hodge-podge of houses: million dollar mansions and run-down 100 year old bungalows. Very distinct line between the haves and the have-nots. I remember sitting in my living room late one night, reading by the window when I saw a face in my window. (MY god, I just got chills remembering this.) Very calmly I called out to my husband, as if I was telling him something interesting from my book. He walked out the side door with his shotgun and threw on the porch light. He stopped this man from breaking into our neighbor's house. But he could have been killed, as I frantically and emotionally yelled at him.

So there is this vigilante, this man who lived by the "cowboy code" who tried to stop a slaughter. If he hadn't wounded the gunman, the gunman may have killed more. BTW, the gunman had an assault rifle, which I am VEHEMENTLY opposed to. They (and handguns, for that matter) are designed for one thing, and one thing only: killing people.

Now we get to the Buffy portion of this ramble. Buffy was obviously opposed to guns. "These? Never useful!" But they can be. But they should be in the hands of people who are trained and people who are aware (and RESPECTFUL) of their awesome and frightening power. And there's the rub, right? You have Wesley who IMMEDIATELY turned to guns in a crisis. When he shoots the intern's knee for questioning his dedication to the "Burkle case" and when he unloaded his gun into his "father," for starters

I guess what I'm getting at is that it ISN'T black and white. We don't have slayers defending us with their fists and cunning. Guns can save the lives of those being threatened...by...guns. [/irony] There are also five year olds who pick up daddy's gun when he is coming off the shift at the Penn and shoot through the wall and kill their mom. (Happened the same time as the courthouse shooting.) And I'm wondering if we are even having this discussion because ultimately, I'm Texan, and I have the "Rugged Individualism" ideal pounded into me from birth. Is this a regional topic? Outside of the Grits Line is this even a topic? Are people from, say the Northwest, automatically going to shout down any and all gun use? I ask because I want to know. Have any of you had any experience with firearms? Good or bad? Spam me with your insight, your fervor, your questioning of it all.


And I leave this with my Deadwood icon, and if you haven't discovered this show, you are REALLY missing something earth-shatteringly phenominal, and is very relevant to the "cowboy code" topic of discussion.

Comments

[sdwolfpup.livejournal.com]

This is a really difficult question. My stepdad took me out to the shooting range when I was 12 and I got to fire a rifle (and cursed out loud for the first time when I said "holy shit!" after it fired - hee); I also have been to the range and used a 22 (I'm not sure what my proficiency is but it's much better with this than any other because so little recoil) and a 45.

Guns ARE scary. And it would be best if they only ended up in the hands of responsible adults. But they don't. A lot of people make the argument that if you got rid of guns then no one would have them, except I don't think that's a viable solution anymore. Guns are too ubiquituous. The criminals won't be turning them in, not even for money (IMO). So how do we try to control it? I have no freaking idea. I think assualt rifles should be banned; there's no point in private ownership of one. People say they collect them; well then they should be made unfireable. Again, IMO and all that.

I wish I had something smart to add. I'm not again guns just because they're guns. I am against careless and dangerous gun owners. We need a Bad Gun Owner detector!

[beadattitude.livejournal.com]

I have very limited experience with guns. My dad, evidently, was a crack shot (a la Atticus Finch) which he forgot for 30 or so years until some friends took him quail hunting and he bagged more than the rest of the group. He said he and his dad used to go hunting for supplemental food during WWII when he was a just over 10 years old.

His friends gave him a quail gun, which he kept under his bed. One night he heard a noise that woke him from sleep, he said threateningly, "I have a gun back here!" And then called the cops. The cops came and couldnt find anything. Unable to sleep, he and mom turned on the tv, and a tiny little squirrel came shooting out. Hee.

My best friend from college had a stalker, and bought a 9mm because she was that afraid of him. She also got a brown belt in....something. I was never comfortable around her when she had the gun, because she was pretty tightly wound. Luckily, her stalker didn't move with her when she left that town.

A friend of ours was going through a rough time, and one night a counselor at the local crisis center asked us if we would go to her house and remove her gun. So, venturing 45 miles away in a pretty steady snow, we did. It's in my attic, in a box of old knicknacks nine years later. She never asked for it back, and I never offered, because honestly, I don't think she was ever calmed down enough to have it back. She's moved clear cross country now, and I made it pretty clear I'm not mailing a gun. I don't even think you can.

Lastly, I fella I dated briefly shot his tv while watching a Dirty Harry movie. So, with the exception of my dad, all the people that I knew who had guns, really weren't people who should.

But I also live in a village where it's the exception to lock your house when you're not there. If I lived in certain areas in my hometown, (Atlanta) maybe I might think about it. But I'd get a different kind of protection first - mace, martial arts, something.

Guns seem so...final to me, if that makes any sense. You have one and you're saying, "I'm willing to kill to protect myself." I'm just not ready to say that. I've never been in that much danger.

I need a fix 'cause I'm going down...

[crazydiamondsue.livejournal.com]

The Tyler shooting made National; saw it on GMA this morning. And the verdict? He was pissed because he had to pay child support, so he killed his ex-wife and wounds his child? And he showed up wearing Kevlar and toting an AK-47? Shoot him, bury him, dig him up and shoot him again! And that's from an anti-gun uber-liberal.

I am terrified of guns. I grew up with rifles propped up in the corners of almost every room, handguns in easy reach under the counter in my parent's store, under the front seat of my dad's pick-up, under my (at the time) 80-year-old grandmother's pillow.

I've never fired a gun, and try not to touch them, if possible. I have the same deep-seated fear of them that I have for snakes, white pants and Pat Buchanan. I hate them. I was always happy that Joss had Buffy profess such disdain for them (rocket launchers and tranq rifles aside.)

I supported the Brady Bill whole-heartedly, I cringe that Oklahoma hosts a Craft and Gun Show (Bring the Ladies!) twice a year. I know more than one person who was killed in hunting accidents, gun cleaning mishaps and being at the wrong place when some goddamn idiot decided whipping out a gun and pulling the trigger would solve all of their problems.

I've had a handgun pointed at my head during an armed robbery. I've had drunk assholes think it's funny to point guns at kids. And I've also seen my dad keep a drunk psycho out of our store by pointing a gun at him.

It's not black and white. It's gunmetal grey, to get a bit lyrical.

There's an excellent episode of "The Simpsons" where Lisa manages to have all weapons outlawed and destroyed. Then aliens attack (hey, it's a satire) so they have to defend themselves and it becomes, "Look out! He has a stick!" "Look out - he has a stick with a nail in it!" Guns didn't breed violence, violence bred guns. It just makes it easier, "Just point and click!"

The same week the story came out of Tyler, TX, two teenage boys in Choctaw, OK (about 30 miles from OKC) got into an argument in their sleepy little suburb. So one of them turned around, walked into his house, got a gun, came back out and shot his classmate, killing him. They're both 14.

I don't have a summation. I still don't understand the justification of private citizens having access to assault rifles. And the people who argue for it just make themselves sound more and more stupid (think of any interview you've seen with Ted Nugent.)

Growing up in a town where most front home windows were plastered with, "This house protected by Smith and Wesson" and the aforementioned, "cold, dead hand," I have a healthy respect and a (if you'll let me get colloquial) shit-load of fear of guns. So guns are bad. Real bad. Until you need one. And then they still suck. Well, I'm really taking a stance there. How about this - I'd prefer a world where we fought with magic and round-house kicks, but until then...I'm keeping my doors locked and my head down.

[poshcat.livejournal.com]

As a Canadian, this stuff makes me boggle. People just don't have guns here. Lots of people in rural areas have hunting rifles, but in the city? It just doesn't happen. The only shootings we have are Asian gang members and crazy ex-husbands - but you're way more likely to be stabbed than shot in Calgary...and that's just in the nightclubs.

Although we still lock our doors. ::smacks Michael Moore upside the head::

[likeadeuce.livejournal.com]

It's definitely a topic in Virginia. To say nothing of DC.

My father likes to say that the world would be safer if everybody carried a gun, although I think he actually knows that this is insane. I mean, he has a gun for his work (law enforcement) but it's not like he carries it with him. He's offered to take me target shooting but not with great enthusiasm and in fact I don't think he's ever taken any of his kids (though I'm sure he would if any of us asked him; which makes me hope seekingxanadu doesn't read this post because it's not like he needs to learn more potentially destructive behaviors). Guns freak me out in real life. In movies? They can be cool. As long as I'm able to think of them as "things that belong in movies."

I hope you weren't expecting this to be coherent or anything.

[spikesbint.livejournal.com]

cute icon, havent heard of the show.

Guns are still a really scary thing in the UK. We have gun crime here, but its not that rife at the moment, we just have dumb laws that let mentally unstable people on the street to stab to death unsuspecting victims.

Our police still do not carry guns as every day protection, although i am sure it will one day come to that.

Angela

[crazydiamondsue.livejournal.com]

Ooops, forgot to say that I still haven't seen an ep of "Deadwood", what with not having the HBO and all. Emily was in my dream last night. I remember we were allowed eat lots of cookie dough...I think you were my mom...

[crazydiamondsue.livejournal.com]

They can be cool. As long as I'm able to think of them as "things that belong in movies."

Word. Wesley with guns blazing, flying at Illyria? Kick. Ass. My 15-year-old brother trying to clean his .22 and shooting a hole through the den wall and into the living room, inches from my Mom? Not so kickin'.

For some reason, this comments deserves my cowboy icon.

[hellespont.livejournal.com]

There was actually a number of shootings in Toronto either last summer or the one before. It may have been gang-related, but I think some totally uninvolved people also got hit. There is more gun violence in Canada than a lot of people think, at least in Toronto. I live there now, and it's in the papers. Very sad, and scary.

[somecandytalkin.livejournal.com]

Okay, not much to contribute. I'm from Louisiana people, who use guns for everything, including exterminate rattlesnakes that are IN THE HOUSE with them! So...
And yesterday? Heard on the news that some poor woman around here got shot in the back while sitting at her computer because her five-year old found the gun. And the reporter goes, "It is thought that the shooting was accidental." Ummmm....okay.
And that made me think of the Wiggums' quote: No jury in the world is going to convict a baby. ...Maybe Texas.
Gotta love our state!

Whoot Deadwood!

[hellespont.livejournal.com]

I'm also from Canada - I spent early years in some pretty "sketchy" areas around Toronto, grew up in a "nice" suburb, and have now moved back to Toronto for university. I've never fired a gun. Never touched one. Other than in museums, on police officers, and in Wal-Mart, I don't think I've ever even seen a gun in real life. Certainly not one belonging to a friend or in a private home. My neighbour back home apparently owns hunting rifles, although I've never seen them; he was the first person I ever knew personally who had guns.

I have an intellectual fear of guns, not an emotional one, because I've never been around or been threatened by them. I've never been a victim of a violent crime or seen one in progress. I walk the streets of Toronto at night alone coming home from parties, and I know I should be scared, but I'm not. Probably I'd be more scared if I thought that the people around me were armed (they may be, but I don't think so). I could never have a gun in my house, any more than I'd have a venomous cobra. But then, other than my toddler years, I've never lived in an area where there is a legitimate fear of violence (and I don't think my parents were really afraid then either). Maybe I'd change my tune, maybe not.

[stoney321.livejournal.com]

See, I knew you would know just what I am talking about. I mean, the big U football game is the "Red River Shoot-Out." Frickin' FOOTBALL, man.

It isn't black and white, but I think there are those folks who just automatically say: guns = evil. And they haven't been around guns, or people who respect their power. I lived out west among the psycho militia-types, and also people who hunted for their family's dinner and had a healthy dose of reality with the killing power.

I'm cracking up at the Craft n' Gun show. Knitting gun cozies was probably a table. They have gun shows every month. THERE's the dangerous loophole, BTW. No waiting period at a gun show. Yikes.

[stoney321.livejournal.com]

Bad Gun Owner. Right. While we're at it, let's throw in Bad Parent Detector, Bad Animal Owner... And if I think of any more, I'll let you know. Hee!!

"Guns are too ubiquitous" That paragraph of yours is smack on.

[stoney321.livejournal.com]

It seems reasonable to ask people to go through psychological testing to make sure they aren't crazy before giving them a gun. Same with cars, though. There are strict regulations for the concealed weapon license (as there should be) but any wacko can go to a gun show and walk out with a gun.

Loopholes. Therein lies the problem, IMO.

[stoney321.livejournal.com]

Season one is out on DVD... Seriously. There isn't a better character in television today than Al Swearengen. You think Wesley had some character development?? This guy is the ultimate bad man doing good being good but still bad thing.

Sue: it's the best frickin' show around. I've got it in my top 5 of ALL TIME. Lyrical and beautiful and ugly and hard.

[stoney321.livejournal.com]

Yeah, MM made it seem like you are living in fairy land, which in a way, you are. I love Canada for some basic reasons: people are more mellow, more tolerant, and funny as hell as a general genetic rule.

*wishes you had a longer warm season*

[stoney321.livejournal.com]

Part of me thinks everyone should fire a gun at some point. It would make it more real - their power and the danger. But then, following that argument: everyone should try heroin so they know how bad it is, and that is just crazy talk.

You'd take away all of MY heroin.

[stoney321.livejournal.com]

I knew about the lack of guns in the UK... Honestly, I'm more afraid of a mob of angry hooligans after a lost football match than I am of a gang of black guys in a hooptie. Mainly because I know that Hollywood exaggerates the "black experience." Which is probably true of hooligans, too. :-)

(Deadwood just came out on DVD. It's about the town of Deadwood, SOuth Dakota in the days of Wild Bill Hickock, shootouts, gold mines, etc. The characters are based on real people, and it's raw and painful and ugly and lyrical and just fantastic writing and acting. If you can find it, watch it. You won't be disappointed.)

[poshcat.livejournal.com]

I hear you, but it's all relative. I'm sure you've heard the stats where, like, 250 people (I'm totally making these numbers up) die of gunshots each year in Canada, and 12,000 die in the US. Of course, any is too many...but those stats still always shock me.

[stoney321.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I hinted at that 5 year old in the original post. Which is why I stressed that we take extreme measures to lock up our guns and make them unusable at the house.

I forgot about that Chief Wiggum quote. Hilarious. *mourns the Simpsons being funny*

[stoney321.livejournal.com]

This hit me in your statement: I have an intellectual fear of guns, not an emotional one

I think most people's reactions to guns (either pro or con) is emotional. But the fact remains that they are dangerous tools. Getting beaned over the head with an adz or shot through with an arrow isn't going to kill you. Getting shot in the abdomen with a gun? Most likely.

[stoney321.livejournal.com]

I was interested in how many people in Wisconsin hunt, as well. Colder, more large animals to hunt. Get south of DFW, and you are in prime hunting land, though. My husband's gun use was almost a deal breaker for our marriage, that's how strongly opposed I was. he has made me see that not all gun owners are nuts, and proper care and respect of them (while not making them less dangerous) makes the liklihood of an accident closer to nil.

Isn't that a terrible thing about Dallas? It isn't random violence, however. The majority of murders are gun-for-hire scenarios. Then there are all of the accidental shootings... Yikes. Lots of armed robbery. Makes me soooo glad we left the Lower Greenville neighborhood (where there was a drive-by shooting behind us on Goliad) and here in the gated communities of McKinney.

[stoney321.livejournal.com]

It's definitely a lower number in Canada. See what happens with a diet of beer and bacon and humor? Less lives lost. Hee!

[hellespont.livejournal.com]

My fear of guns isn't too personal because they're not part of my world, or at least not my world as I perceive it. A wild lion would be very scary in the flesh, but I'm not scared when I think of lions or see them on tv - because when am I ever going to meet a lion? And I'd like to keep it that way with guns, for myself and as many people as possible.

[somecandytalkin.livejournal.com]

Ooooh. I didn't know we were talking about the same kid.
Sad.

I also mourn the Simpsons funny era. There has been one recently that I laughed at, the prescription one. Other than that? Meh...

Love your icon, Cocksuckah!