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stoney321I realized that a lot of you watching Big Love might not get the second half of the opening sequence, and what all of that "sealing" nonsense was in the show last night. *Cue the Beach Boys* After the ice breaks apart in the opening sequence, they're all wandering through blowing gauze, meant to represent "veils." Bill finds Barb first, then Nicki, then Margene. Here's what that means:
When a Mormon couple is married, they also get married for eternity - done in the temple. So, it's not "'til death do us part." You're stuck with that hombre for time and all eternity. (Hope you picked wisely!) It works like this:
First, Mormons get "endowments" performed, which is a way of commiting yourself to God wholely. Once you've done this, you wear "garments." These, incidentally, were ripped off of the Freemasons, as were the majority of the temple rituals. This is a separate ceremony from the marriage ceremony. (Guys and girls who go on missions have this done prior.)
Second, comes the wedding in the temple. Aside from the weird apron you put over your genetalia (you're in a white temple dress if you're female - the apron is over this) and the kneeling across from your mate while mirrors reflect yourselves for "eternity" back at you, the husband stands at a cloth hanging like a drape with a rent in the middle. *cough*vagina*cough* He steps through. He says your secret name (women get a new name for the eternities - and only the husband can call you by it once you're dead) and reaches back through the tear for your hand and draws you in to the afterlife to be his spouse.
Funny thing: the names aren't cool like in "Neverending Story," they're things like "Helen" or "Katheryn." Ehhh? Also, the church has recently removed the pantomime of slitting your throat, slitting your gut and spilling your bowels out, because newbies were freaked out by it. (read: not coming back to the temple) Um, that was there (as in the ORIGINAL FREEMASON RITUAL, ahem) because you swore to God that you would kill yourself in a ritualistic manner if you spoke about what goes on in the temple. *cough* And suuuuure.
This was only done to instill the "importance" and "sacred nature" of the temple rites. It wasn't done to keep people from knowing what wackadoos they are. [/digress] I've not even talked about the secret handshakes... (Also from the original Freemason rituals. Joseph Smith was a Freemason, which is in NO WAY coincidental that the Mormon's "revealed and ancient" temple rites practically mirrored the Freemason's.)
Through this process and others, you are "Sealed" to your mate. Meaning, the marriage bond cannot be broken, even by death. Any children born of that union are automatically "sealed" to the parents. That way, you can float in the heavens as a family harp band for ever. No one lost! UNLESS. Unless they are excommunicated by the church, in which case all "blessings" that came from the church (baptism, sealings, etc.) are broken for the eternities.
This is why Barb's family was so devastated by her becoming a polygamist - they feared the church finding out and her being excommunicated (not to mention that according to their beliefs, God and Jesus would judge her and find her unworthy to enter the highest level of Heaven. Um, the Mormon church's heaven is a lot like Mary Kay or Amway - there are levels to climb.)
Polygamists (FLDS) believe that they are the only ones that can REALLY get to the top tier of heaven, because they're practicing the religion like Joseph Smith laid out. So to someone like Nicki, Barb's family will never get to the level they're at, because they're NOT living the Principle.
It's also important to note that a single woman (in the Mormon beliefs, and this is true for FLDS, too) CAN NOT obtain the highest level (kingdom) of heaven. She will HAVE to be sealed to a man to get there. So... anyone who wants to tell me that this lifestyle is about women's power, because they run the house, etc. I am holding my sides and belly-laughing. Also: it is perfectly normal for a man to be sealed to many women in "heaven." (My father, for example, was sealed to my bio-mom and my step-mom. My bio-mom got a "temple divorce" a few years back, so my dad is no longer a theoretical polygamist.) A woman CAN. NOT. be sealed to more than one man.
OH! And some of the polygamist blogs I follow (um, written by polygamists - Warren Jeffs' flock) had been watching Big love up until Alby's second wife started poisoning the "prophet" and then they all got silent on what was goiong on. Which makes me think the show is more accurate than I guessed. (Warren Jeffs came quickly into power when his father, Rulon, died suddenly. Also, there are gay rumors about Warren Jeffs and some of the "Lost Boys" that are being called to testify in his upcoming Federal case.) My guess is Roman Grant will die in the finale and Alby will take over, which is what I surmised a few eps back, too. I think they're going to push the power/closeted homosexual element to Alby's character in the next season, and hopefully talk more about the Lost Boys element and the forcing young girls to belong to other men.
WACKOS, people. They are all wackos. It's fascinating TV, but geez Louise. Wackos. Last thing: the guy Sarah is getting her heart broken by? And how unappealing sexually he is? (That's not just me, right?) That's like... 70% of the population in Provo. BLEH.![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
floweringjudas? Am I wrong? Ick.
Today is underwear/shoes/paper and folder purchasing day. One week until school starts for us! \o/
When a Mormon couple is married, they also get married for eternity - done in the temple. So, it's not "'til death do us part." You're stuck with that hombre for time and all eternity. (Hope you picked wisely!) It works like this:
First, Mormons get "endowments" performed, which is a way of commiting yourself to God wholely. Once you've done this, you wear "garments." These, incidentally, were ripped off of the Freemasons, as were the majority of the temple rituals. This is a separate ceremony from the marriage ceremony. (Guys and girls who go on missions have this done prior.)
Second, comes the wedding in the temple. Aside from the weird apron you put over your genetalia (you're in a white temple dress if you're female - the apron is over this) and the kneeling across from your mate while mirrors reflect yourselves for "eternity" back at you, the husband stands at a cloth hanging like a drape with a rent in the middle. *cough*vagina*cough* He steps through. He says your secret name (women get a new name for the eternities - and only the husband can call you by it once you're dead) and reaches back through the tear for your hand and draws you in to the afterlife to be his spouse.
Funny thing: the names aren't cool like in "Neverending Story," they're things like "Helen" or "Katheryn." Ehhh? Also, the church has recently removed the pantomime of slitting your throat, slitting your gut and spilling your bowels out, because newbies were freaked out by it. (read: not coming back to the temple) Um, that was there (as in the ORIGINAL FREEMASON RITUAL, ahem) because you swore to God that you would kill yourself in a ritualistic manner if you spoke about what goes on in the temple. *cough* And suuuuure.
This was only done to instill the "importance" and "sacred nature" of the temple rites. It wasn't done to keep people from knowing what wackadoos they are. [/digress] I've not even talked about the secret handshakes... (Also from the original Freemason rituals. Joseph Smith was a Freemason, which is in NO WAY coincidental that the Mormon's "revealed and ancient" temple rites practically mirrored the Freemason's.)
Through this process and others, you are "Sealed" to your mate. Meaning, the marriage bond cannot be broken, even by death. Any children born of that union are automatically "sealed" to the parents. That way, you can float in the heavens as a family harp band for ever. No one lost! UNLESS. Unless they are excommunicated by the church, in which case all "blessings" that came from the church (baptism, sealings, etc.) are broken for the eternities.
This is why Barb's family was so devastated by her becoming a polygamist - they feared the church finding out and her being excommunicated (not to mention that according to their beliefs, God and Jesus would judge her and find her unworthy to enter the highest level of Heaven. Um, the Mormon church's heaven is a lot like Mary Kay or Amway - there are levels to climb.)
Polygamists (FLDS) believe that they are the only ones that can REALLY get to the top tier of heaven, because they're practicing the religion like Joseph Smith laid out. So to someone like Nicki, Barb's family will never get to the level they're at, because they're NOT living the Principle.
It's also important to note that a single woman (in the Mormon beliefs, and this is true for FLDS, too) CAN NOT obtain the highest level (kingdom) of heaven. She will HAVE to be sealed to a man to get there. So... anyone who wants to tell me that this lifestyle is about women's power, because they run the house, etc. I am holding my sides and belly-laughing. Also: it is perfectly normal for a man to be sealed to many women in "heaven." (My father, for example, was sealed to my bio-mom and my step-mom. My bio-mom got a "temple divorce" a few years back, so my dad is no longer a theoretical polygamist.) A woman CAN. NOT. be sealed to more than one man.
OH! And some of the polygamist blogs I follow (um, written by polygamists - Warren Jeffs' flock) had been watching Big love up until Alby's second wife started poisoning the "prophet" and then they all got silent on what was goiong on. Which makes me think the show is more accurate than I guessed. (Warren Jeffs came quickly into power when his father, Rulon, died suddenly. Also, there are gay rumors about Warren Jeffs and some of the "Lost Boys" that are being called to testify in his upcoming Federal case.) My guess is Roman Grant will die in the finale and Alby will take over, which is what I surmised a few eps back, too. I think they're going to push the power/closeted homosexual element to Alby's character in the next season, and hopefully talk more about the Lost Boys element and the forcing young girls to belong to other men.
WACKOS, people. They are all wackos. It's fascinating TV, but geez Louise. Wackos. Last thing: the guy Sarah is getting her heart broken by? And how unappealing sexually he is? (That's not just me, right?) That's like... 70% of the population in Provo. BLEH.
floweringjudas? Am I wrong? Ick.Today is underwear/shoes/paper and folder purchasing day. One week until school starts for us! \o/
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no subject
Date: 2007-08-20 02:29 pm (UTC)I don't want to insinuate that Orthodox Judaism isn't patriarcial in a lot of ways (I, of course, am not Orthodox) but did you know that women can request a get (divorce) if they are not sexually satisfied? Men do not have that option.
Only the husband can grant a divorce though. Like I said, not perfect.
no subject
Date: 2007-08-20 02:39 pm (UTC)It's early and I haven't had nearly enough coffee, but that made me giggle for some reason. I don't know, I guess it's the mental picture of standing in front of a judge or what have you and saying, "I'm just saying, he can't get me there and screw THAT!"
Sorry. I'm going to go over there now. :)
(no subject)
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Date: 2007-08-20 02:46 pm (UTC)Haha, I bet that when the wife makes it known to the religious leaders (with her husband in tow) that she wants a divorce based on sexual dissatisfaction, he might not fight too much? Possibly he would want to slink out of there? ;)
But yeah - religion is freaky, imo.
(no subject)
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From:no subject
Date: 2007-08-21 10:52 pm (UTC)Actually, anyone can ask for a divorce for any reason - but as you said, only the husband can grant it. Of course, the current tradition is that the wife may refuse it ("thought you could be rid of me so easily?") and few if any rabbis will allow the husband to remarry before she accepts the divorce.
Can someone explain how Barb's mother got "unsealed"? Is that a divorce or an annulment? How does it affect Barb and Cindy "unto all eternity?" And why is Ned's family bothered by it all - isn't he allowed to be sealed to two women?
(no subject)
From:no subject
Date: 2007-08-20 02:40 pm (UTC)Can you link to some of these blogs you read, please, for those of us who are curious?
ANd I'd love to know how you came to leave the church, if you care to tell.
no subject
Date: 2007-08-20 02:50 pm (UTC)Mostly I realized that it was hogwash. There was a period of shame and anger for having been duped for so long, but my main focus now is to enlighten people on what that religion actually believes.
The most important blog I follow is the one of the group that fled after Warren Jeffs' arrest and set up in Texas. They're shockingly candid, which makes me wonder how the Feds can't use this as evidence.
(no subject)
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Date: 2007-08-20 02:47 pm (UTC)I find this all so interesting, but I'm glad that I can just read about it and I don't live in that world.
Buying school supplies...I kind of miss that. Shiny new notebooks, new pens, and the all important Trapper Keeper! :)
no subject
Date: 2007-08-20 02:51 pm (UTC)I loooooooove school supply shopping! All the folders and paper and safety scissors and glue... YAY!
no subject
Date: 2007-08-20 02:55 pm (UTC)So, I have enough working knowledge to feel somewhat comfortable talking about it and am just very glad to say I didn't get pulled into it.
Anyway, thanks for posting this. I have always been curious about the temple endowment stuff, since it's forbidden to be talked about.
*goes back to lurking*
no subject
Date: 2007-08-20 03:02 pm (UTC)I've written several posts about this topic, all tagged if you want to read more batshittery. Hahahaha.
(no subject)
From:no subject
Date: 2007-08-20 02:55 pm (UTC)HAHAHAHAHAHA omg this struck me so funny and I laughed for like, 5 whole minutes. Yeah.
Caffeine FTW!! \o/
no subject
Date: 2007-08-20 03:00 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-08-20 03:24 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-08-20 03:31 pm (UTC)It *is* brainwashing. Absolutely. Good to hear about your BF.
(no subject)
From:no subject
Date: 2007-08-20 04:04 pm (UTC)I admire the Mormon ideals of love, family (NOT the freaky poly families but the "family is good" ideal), helping one another, but the principles to achieve those goals? SO FUCKED UP OMG.
My guess is Roman Grant will die in the finale and Alby will take over, which is what I surmised a few eps back, too. I think they're going to push the power/closeted homosexual element to Alby's character in the next season, and hopefully talk more about the Lost Boys element and the forcing young girls to belong to other men.
WACKOS, people. They are all wackos. It's fascinating TV, but geez Louise. Wackos. Last thing: the guy Sarah is getting her heart broken by? And how unappealing sexually he is? (That's not just me, right?)
Yes to all of that. Roman, as scary and power-hungry as he is, doesn't freak me the hell out like Alby does.
no subject
Date: 2007-08-20 05:50 pm (UTC)And yeah - I love how strong the community mindset is (unless it takes a busy-body mindset) how dedicated to service they are, acts of charity... But the basic beliefs are absolutely insane. There's been a HUUUUGE shift in the backrooms to try and make the church more mainstream, to get all of this sort of info removed, but the problem is that the state of Utah knows all of this stuff and... that's where the church is. Fool's errand.
Alby is FRIGHTENING because he's so clearly unhinged. Yeeeps.
no subject
Date: 2007-08-20 04:14 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-08-20 05:50 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-08-20 04:28 pm (UTC)Oh, wait.. that means that they don't get to go to the top kingdom! (Wait.. who care...)
no subject
Date: 2007-08-20 05:53 pm (UTC)...I guess I do understand. LOL!
I worry about what will happen to Heather if they explore anything there. The movie Latter Days (for all of its cheese and incorrect missionary stuff) is unfortunately based on a harsh reality: gay Mormons would rather kill themselves than leave the church/embarrass their families. <-- utterly horrible
no subject
Date: 2007-08-20 04:50 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-08-20 05:53 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-08-20 05:11 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-08-20 05:54 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-08-20 06:08 pm (UTC)I stayed far away from Big Love. It looked far too creepy. Now, I'm thinking I should catch up with it. I'm also looking forward to your memoir.
no subject
Date: 2007-08-20 06:54 pm (UTC)The show is really fascinating. I was worried it would be a glorification of that religion, or trying to make people less concerned about their practices. If anyone can watch that show and think it's a good idea afterwards, I'll eat my hat. They really did their research.
no subject
Date: 2007-08-20 06:10 pm (UTC)I'm tapping my toes, on fire to go school-supply shopping, but we have yet to get Evan's teacher's letter. Nathan's arrived a couple of weeks ago. The day we get Evan's, then Staples, here we come!
no subject
Date: 2007-08-20 06:57 pm (UTC)Just tell him that Mitt's dad was born into a polygamist commune and see what he thinks about that. :)
And our school was really smart this year: they submitted school supply lists to Wal-Mart, Target, and Staples locally. It's right there at the crayon/marker/paper section! I have a few more folders to pick up, new shoes for #2 and then I am DONE!
no subject
Date: 2007-08-20 06:15 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-08-20 06:58 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-08-20 07:12 pm (UTC)I don't watch Big Love (I don't think we get it here anyway). I enjoy reading your insights into it and the religion. I remember seeing a TV special on the Lost Boys awhile back; it's quite horrifying to think of all those boys just tossed away by their supposedly loving families.
no subject
Date: 2007-08-20 07:47 pm (UTC)The FLDS (the fundamental Mormon outfit) is just a horrible organization. The regular Mormons aren't as bad - they're just slightly brainwashed instead of crazy brainwashed. =/
(no subject)
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Date: 2007-08-20 09:12 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-08-20 09:33 pm (UTC)Ahahahahaha. Oh, and also the INBREEDING. Gubler, Sorensen, Christiansen, Young, Romney... Maybe three other names. And that's everyone EVER in Utah. :D
(no subject)
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From:no subject
Date: 2007-08-20 11:07 pm (UTC)Really, there are two reasons I would never join the LDS church (other than I find it bizarre). One, I'd have to give up coffee, and two, the view of women sucks.
no subject
Date: 2007-08-20 11:41 pm (UTC)And the funny thing, Mormons think they have a GREAT and POSITIVE view on women. *cough* as baby makers. If you can't produce a baby, well... It's all such crap.
(no subject)
From:no subject
Date: 2007-08-21 10:06 am (UTC)Hey, I'm curious--are you opposed to polygamy in the non-crazy-Mormon sense? I'm meeting a friend-of-a-friend soon who has lived with two husbands for seventeen years and it's been on my mind. (I have NO IDEA how to behave while over at their house. I'm convinced I'm gonna be a disaster.)
no subject
Date: 2007-08-21 12:48 pm (UTC)Polygamy is a religious relationship - there isn't choice for women in that situation. That's the one I have issues with.
(Just be yourself! I mean, you don't talk about what you do in the bedroom, so don't focus on that with this new group. *g*)
no subject
Date: 2007-08-21 10:42 am (UTC)Thanks for your wonderful posts.
BTW: I gave up on Big Love very early as I found it far too distressing to watch.
no subject
Date: 2007-08-21 12:45 pm (UTC)You know, I go back and forth on the show myself. Up until the past... three episodes? I've been recording them and watching them in large chunks. And getting stressed out for four hours instead of one hour at a time. :D
no subject
Date: 2007-08-22 03:11 am (UTC)I have a question for you if you don't mind taking the time to answer. In the episode a few weeks ago where Alby was having his testimony meeting and he kept dipping his head into a hat (? I think, I watch the show on my computer so it's sometimes a little dark and fuzzy). What was the deal with that?
no subject
Date: 2007-08-22 03:37 am (UTC)o_0
(no subject)
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From:no subject
Date: 2007-08-23 03:12 am (UTC)I thought it was high time I friended you -- especially since
no subject
Date: 2007-08-23 01:17 pm (UTC)And boy Heidi... The Mormon church still has 90% of my family in its grips, but considering we were there in the covered wagons with Brigham Young, it's astonishing that my sister and I were able to break their hold. It's very cultish, something I denied for yeeeeaaars.
I think the Baptists get a similar hold on folks... ;)
no subject
Date: 2007-08-23 06:15 pm (UTC)YAY! And soon, Precious. Soon there will be cable! And reruns of Big Love and other shows!
(there's more horse opera, btw!) How's your day? I'm super sore for some reason. =/