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stoney321Long time readers of my polygamy rants (click here to read back-posts, or read my Mormon rants) are most likely NOT surprised by all the stories coming out since yesterday's release of the Gag Order on investigators to the Yearning For Zion Ranch in El Dorado, Texas. Did you read about the pre-teen girls being pregnant? What did I tell you two days ago? [Insert "I told you so" comment here.]
The thing that's upsetting me the most is that I feel in my bones that the original 16 year old girl that called in abuse is dead. (Let's hope she's just been banished to Bountiful, Canada and the Blackmore plyg clan.) Warren Jeffs originally had a high-temperature furnace installed on the property, with the instructions that it would burn hot enough to destroy DNA evidence. The original engineer of that furnace had this to say on the (apparently) secret blog of a former YFZ/FLDS member
He said:
Later on, in further blog comments, Richter says he *did* originally think it was for a crematorium, but then worried he'd be considered an accomplice for building it, without knowing what it truly was for. Chicken shit.
Now, Duff Bristline was a big name in the original Colorado City Plyg group, before Warren Jeffs took over. (It's his blog I follow.) He was kicked out, his wives and children "reassigned" to other men (HI, CULT.) and wasn't allowed to contact them. But he does in secret, and once Jeffs was arrested, was able to get back in contact with everyone at the YFZ Ranch (where his families were moved.) He has all of these pictures of the compound, and one of them is a "potato shed." He speculates (and I believe him to be right) that it's the location of the high-temp furnace.
New reports are coming out that a jackhammer was brought in, and there has been speculation that they're looking for bodies under newly poured concrete. Nope. (See, that's what the high temp furnace was for.) They're opening safes. More charges are being applied to Warren Jeffs, and any documentation that DEFINITELY there will help. One of the Texas Rangers said that once they got into the "temple" they finally had all the information they needed. Guess what's kept there? Marriage records. Birth records. That stuff is NOT filed with the state, because bingo! A 13 year old being married to a man in his 50s? Then having a baby? Yeah, they've never kept that stuff in public, and if you've read any of the books written by the women that came out of that culture, they've never had birth certificates. Only the first wife's kids get those, because they're the only legit ones.
So now they're getting their hands on all sorts of wonderful evidence. The first man arrested, by the way, was Jeff's brother, the one with him in the Cadillac at his arrest. He was "tampering with evidence and interfering with an investigation." Trying to hide that stuff, or destroy it, apparently.
It's also interesting to note that all of the people I read online who secretly keep blogs (keep in mind FLDS are forbidden from using media unless to spread their message, listen to hymns - created by Jeffs, or read anything not Jeffs-approved) are all men who are apologists. No women. None. The only women who ever respond are either out of the religion and are pariahs, or people like me stumbling across and asking these people how the hell they can continue to think this way.
This is NOT a religious issue. This is a civil rights issue. This is about the very essence of what it means to be an American: life, liberty, and the PURSUIT of happiness, being taken away from generations of women and children. You cannot pursue happiness when you are taught to live in fear, when your womanhood serves as a means of power and control for a man, when you are denied access to knowledge, to education, to proper health-care.
I have to say it again: this is NOT about grown ups deciding to live together in a sexual and emotional commitment with multiple adults. AT. ALL. This is not the fun, sexy face of "Big Love." (The non-Juniper Creek part.) This is about girls beginning their periods, then forced to marry and have sex with older men, even if that man is her uncle, her first cousin, her grandfather. IT IS REAL. I'm just relieved beyond belief that people are finally paying attention to this. Guys, this has been around for over one hundred and fifty years. My family was polygamist, and some cousins still are.
Oh, and here's my guess at all the family names that will crop up, because there's only a handful of these folks from Colorado City/Hilldale:
I gave a wry laugh at a report from one of the sweet little Baptist church ladies who hollered out to another woman recording names, "Watch out, I've already had a couple of Barlows. I don't think they're telling us their correct names." Nope, that's what you get with an inbred, incestuous community. (And let's hear it for those folks pitching in with their own resources to help out these people. This is what you get when the Texas Rangers are on the case, instead of the Feds.)
And I hate to say it, but the best way to keep these women and children from going off the deep end would be to integrate them with Mormons. They have the same vernacular. Good hell, if some of those Pentecostals and Baptists try and witness to them? They'll freak the hell out. They won't know what on earth is going on.
The thing that's upsetting me the most is that I feel in my bones that the original 16 year old girl that called in abuse is dead. (Let's hope she's just been banished to Bountiful, Canada and the Blackmore plyg clan.) Warren Jeffs originally had a high-temperature furnace installed on the property, with the instructions that it would burn hot enough to destroy DNA evidence. The original engineer of that furnace had this to say on the (apparently) secret blog of a former YFZ/FLDS member
He said:
Warren Jeffs did not tell me directly to build a furnace for destroying DNA. Charles Olds told me Mike Emack needed a furnace built and needed our help. I had no idea where Mike was at the time. It never crossed my mind it might be illegit because it came from Mike (I trusted Mike, but I was starting to get suspicious of Warren even then). Coming from Mike, I would have expected a steel mill before a crematory. I never got further with Charles than deciding a few circuit details with him when it then became an urgent need for radio scrambling.
No one from Texas or anywhere else ever talked to me about a furnace; only Charles.Charles showed me an infrared sensor for the furnace that could sense up to 2700F and we needed to interface it to an SCR bank. He showed me a three-phase SCR bank he was using for controlling the heater. I was starting to think about how to interface to the SCR. I was pushing for a graphic LCD display and control, but Mike told Charles, "No, we need a lit LED because where it is going, it will be dark." (An LED is like an alarm clock with several figure 8's. A graphical LCD is like what you see at gas pumps with the little squares) Mike's only comment to me through it all is "we are working for a good cause, but I can't tell you anything, except that I was called on a mission."
The timeline was autumn 2003.
Robert Richter
Later on, in further blog comments, Richter says he *did* originally think it was for a crematorium, but then worried he'd be considered an accomplice for building it, without knowing what it truly was for. Chicken shit.
One person said [to me] "I was in a conversation with Warren and he said 'Brethren, we have got to find a place and a means to blood atone those that need blood atoning."
Robert Richter
Now, Duff Bristline was a big name in the original Colorado City Plyg group, before Warren Jeffs took over. (It's his blog I follow.) He was kicked out, his wives and children "reassigned" to other men (HI, CULT.) and wasn't allowed to contact them. But he does in secret, and once Jeffs was arrested, was able to get back in contact with everyone at the YFZ Ranch (where his families were moved.) He has all of these pictures of the compound, and one of them is a "potato shed." He speculates (and I believe him to be right) that it's the location of the high-temp furnace.
New reports are coming out that a jackhammer was brought in, and there has been speculation that they're looking for bodies under newly poured concrete. Nope. (See, that's what the high temp furnace was for.) They're opening safes. More charges are being applied to Warren Jeffs, and any documentation that DEFINITELY there will help. One of the Texas Rangers said that once they got into the "temple" they finally had all the information they needed. Guess what's kept there? Marriage records. Birth records. That stuff is NOT filed with the state, because bingo! A 13 year old being married to a man in his 50s? Then having a baby? Yeah, they've never kept that stuff in public, and if you've read any of the books written by the women that came out of that culture, they've never had birth certificates. Only the first wife's kids get those, because they're the only legit ones.
So now they're getting their hands on all sorts of wonderful evidence. The first man arrested, by the way, was Jeff's brother, the one with him in the Cadillac at his arrest. He was "tampering with evidence and interfering with an investigation." Trying to hide that stuff, or destroy it, apparently.
It's also interesting to note that all of the people I read online who secretly keep blogs (keep in mind FLDS are forbidden from using media unless to spread their message, listen to hymns - created by Jeffs, or read anything not Jeffs-approved) are all men who are apologists. No women. None. The only women who ever respond are either out of the religion and are pariahs, or people like me stumbling across and asking these people how the hell they can continue to think this way.
This is NOT a religious issue. This is a civil rights issue. This is about the very essence of what it means to be an American: life, liberty, and the PURSUIT of happiness, being taken away from generations of women and children. You cannot pursue happiness when you are taught to live in fear, when your womanhood serves as a means of power and control for a man, when you are denied access to knowledge, to education, to proper health-care.
I have to say it again: this is NOT about grown ups deciding to live together in a sexual and emotional commitment with multiple adults. AT. ALL. This is not the fun, sexy face of "Big Love." (The non-Juniper Creek part.) This is about girls beginning their periods, then forced to marry and have sex with older men, even if that man is her uncle, her first cousin, her grandfather. IT IS REAL. I'm just relieved beyond belief that people are finally paying attention to this. Guys, this has been around for over one hundred and fifty years. My family was polygamist, and some cousins still are.
Oh, and here's my guess at all the family names that will crop up, because there's only a handful of these folks from Colorado City/Hilldale:
- Bristline
- Barlow (the prominent family with all the power, aside from the Jeffs)
- Jeffs
- Jessop
- Grubler
- Harmon
- Nicholson
- Taylor (the family my cousin's married to, the original law breakers once LDS said "No more! ...in public. Now make us a state!")
- Nielson (one of my old college roommates was a Neilson, and her family was polygamist. She was trying to flee. I don't know if she made it.)
I gave a wry laugh at a report from one of the sweet little Baptist church ladies who hollered out to another woman recording names, "Watch out, I've already had a couple of Barlows. I don't think they're telling us their correct names." Nope, that's what you get with an inbred, incestuous community. (And let's hear it for those folks pitching in with their own resources to help out these people. This is what you get when the Texas Rangers are on the case, instead of the Feds.)
And I hate to say it, but the best way to keep these women and children from going off the deep end would be to integrate them with Mormons. They have the same vernacular. Good hell, if some of those Pentecostals and Baptists try and witness to them? They'll freak the hell out. They won't know what on earth is going on.
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no subject
Date: 2008-04-09 02:36 pm (UTC)If Richter did suspect that furnace might be used as a crematorium, why didn't he report it? Or, even better, not make it and THEN report it?
GAH. Where the hell is personal accountability?
ETA: Sorry, that was rhetorical. *breathes*
Please do share flower pics and recipes, and anything else sunny and happy. Bring the spam, girl- I look forward to it.
no subject
Date: 2008-04-09 02:40 pm (UTC)(here's an explanation) Note that most Mormons outside of Utah are converts and have NO IDEA about any of this stuff. This is old school, hardline doctrine, that the old timers (and the FLDS) hang on to, but to my knowledge, only the polygamists practice it.
(no subject)
From:no subject
Date: 2008-04-09 02:39 pm (UTC)My crocus' are starting to come up! *bounces* It'll still be a bit before I get any flowers, but yay for sprouting!
no subject
Date: 2008-04-09 02:41 pm (UTC)Crocuses! I need to plant some this fall, I miss having them in my garden! See, you may have to wait longer for spring, but you GET a spring! Ours is more of a SPR-wait, no, Summer. :D
(no subject)
From:no subject
Date: 2008-04-09 02:47 pm (UTC)I'm reminded of that book Devil in the White City where the killer had the furnace installed. Not so different from Jeffs, yes?
no subject
Date: 2008-04-09 02:52 pm (UTC)I'm just glad people are talking about it. So many women have come forward over the past 10 years, and only now is the media picking up on it and holding on. It has to have been the religious angle, right? Which... that's no excuse in my book. (Where are the hardline feminists with their fists raised??)
no subject
Date: 2008-04-09 03:09 pm (UTC)And yay for your garden.
no subject
Date: 2008-04-09 03:29 pm (UTC)I'm about to shamble (but I'm not a zombie!!!) out there and enjoy the scent of my alyssum, etc. Bliss.
no subject
Date: 2008-04-09 03:20 pm (UTC)Is it me or is the engineer saying: "I was afraid to be thought an accomplice" code for: "I didn't want to risk the opportunity for more contracts in the future." Maybe I'm just a cynic and he's a good man in a bad situation.
ETA:Ah, ok, I'm a dipshit. That engineer's family was in actual danger, that's something that may make you keep your mouth shut.
On a brighter note, YAY garden pictures! :)
no subject
Date: 2008-04-09 03:32 pm (UTC)And yeah, his family was in danger, but there would have been ways to tip off the authorities and sneak out family members, imo.
YAY GARDENING! Your post yesterday made me SO HAPPY. (And you should totally join that garden group - cataloging would be fun!)
You asked how people are finding you,
From:(no subject)
From:Wow!
From:no subject
Date: 2008-04-09 03:36 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-04-09 03:43 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-04-09 03:37 pm (UTC)*And* the other thing, the boys being abandoned because they're 'too many' so they just dump them like unwanted puppies. Jayzus.
Yeah, where the hell are all the people who scream about misogyny in tv shows while *this* shite is happening?
no subject
Date: 2008-04-09 03:46 pm (UTC)But now that there's a YOUTHFUL face on these mothers, that people are seeing that it's child abuse, my hope is that the pendulum won't swing back the other way.
EXACTLY! We've got psychos yammering about how Joss Whedon's wife is raped everytime they have sex (because of Joss' portrayal of women in his shows, uh... what a wackadoo) and all that shit, yet there's no outrage for this? This isn't a group of adults living together in a house in the PNW/other liberal regions because they're involved emotionally and sexually. This is FORCED SLAVERY. In the US!!! Good hell.
(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:no subject
Date: 2008-04-09 04:23 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-04-09 04:37 pm (UTC)(no subject)
From:no subject
Date: 2008-04-09 04:37 pm (UTC)--WTF 'KEEP SWEET'?!?!?
*FUCK*. *THAT*.
I am so. Angry. No words.
no subject
Date: 2008-04-09 04:40 pm (UTC)(no subject)
From:no subject
Date: 2008-04-09 05:14 pm (UTC)*directs roomie towards your tagged posts*
The scope of what this guy and the extended group have gotten away with just boggles the mind.
no subject
Date: 2008-04-09 05:39 pm (UTC)It really does, doesn't it? I swear, the only reason the BFF (from that region) and I can figure they have been able to is the "religious freedom" angle. But religion doesn't (or, it shouldn't) supercede your rights as a human!
no subject
Date: 2008-04-09 05:35 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-04-09 05:39 pm (UTC)Damn straight, and me too.
Numbers game
Date: 2008-04-09 06:41 pm (UTC)(A former friend of mine's father left the LDS and they used to call him to invite him to singles' groups as they didn't recognize his non-Mormon marriage and this was like 25 years post-leaving the church and they still considered him a member.)
Re: Numbers game
Date: 2008-04-09 06:46 pm (UTC)(Dude, they do that to me too!! It pisses my husband off to no end.)
no subject
Date: 2008-04-09 07:51 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-04-09 08:10 pm (UTC)And yeah - it's going to be a long slog to help these women and kids recover from all of this.
no subject
Date: 2008-04-09 08:41 pm (UTC)I have no words to adequately express my rage or nausea, but I would like to take the oppurtunity to join all the other commenters saying thank you for continuing to post on this issue. I know I've learned far more about the truth of this religion/cult and how it IS STILL PRACTICED from here than anything else.
no subject
Date: 2008-04-09 08:46 pm (UTC)Isn't it just shocking that it's still happening? Mind boggling.
no subject
Date: 2008-04-09 10:22 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-04-09 10:40 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-04-10 12:26 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-04-10 01:26 am (UTC)I feel so badly for these kids. But take heart - there are lots of folks that come out of this and make it. I mean, they'll most likely become mainstream Mormons, but that's better than forced rape on preteens.
no subject
Date: 2008-04-10 12:27 am (UTC)It makes such sense to me, that the people from this cult would be better acclimating to standard-Mormon culture than another type of intense evangelical community.
It's all so shocking, and so, so sad.
no subject
Date: 2008-04-10 01:28 am (UTC)Good freaking lord.
The Mormon culture is so similar, with the exception of the clothing, intense isolation, and polygamy. Everything else is the same, so it's easier for them. Moving into a US Christian house would be like an immigrant moving into a middle class house and trying to make heads or tails.
no subject
Date: 2008-04-10 12:39 am (UTC)Thank you for being a voice crying in the wilderness on this subject for lo, these many years. You are one of my heroes. *hugs*
no subject
Date: 2008-04-10 01:29 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-04-10 03:34 am (UTC)I think the youngest ones will fare better, but the older preteens and teens? Eep!
And yes, glad the Rangers are doing this, and doing it right.
But how many of the older children will simply relocate by choice to another FLDS complex once they are 18 and begin the cycle again?
no subject
Date: 2008-04-10 01:07 pm (UTC)The whole situation is just so awful, but it's good that people are finding out the truth about all of this.
no subject
Date: 2008-04-10 05:41 am (UTC)The Vancouver Sun had an editorial about Bountiful in today's paper. One of their reporters has been writing a series of exposes about the polygamists in Bountiful for the last few years, and her work has pressured the government to look at a situation they'd rather ignore. The editorial is here (http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/editorial/story.html?id=1afdeb6e-c9da-472d-97de-7cf55162f8fd)
no subject
Date: 2008-04-10 01:08 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-04-10 08:15 am (UTC)Those poor girls. Those poor kids. We (general "we," meaning Americans here) like to think America's so enlightened and so liberated compared to other countries, and yet, we have all this crap going on. Next time, before we go patting ourselves on the back, we should maybe take a little closer look at the fucking CULTS that are thriving in our midst. Bleeding Christ.
no subject
Date: 2008-04-10 01:09 pm (UTC)And yeah - we get on Muslims for being so very different from the American norm, and this is every bit as awful as their extremists with the treatment of women/children.