Well... turds.
Aug. 4th, 2007 10:32 amI hate seeing all of these posts about people leaving LJ. For the record, I'm not leaving. I have a frickin' permanent account, and I'm going to use every penny of it, you know? What I am going to do is double post here and at Greatest Journal (GJ) where I am stoney321. Let me know if you're over there and I don't have you friended.
Also, I'm not going to move to loads of sites, like I see people doing. Guys, I'm getting too old for this shit. [/every buddy cop movie made] I have Semagic and I've heard that you can do double posting, so I'm looking into that. I found the LJ backup tool, ljArchive, incredibly simple to use - plus, it has a search device that rocks. (You can find anything from a random comment with ___ topic, etc. etc.)
As for the banhammer controversy, look. I personally do not find those images hot, a turn on, whatever. But you know what? I find Will Ferrell hot, and people look at me like I'm a freak, so... :D I've written Anna Nicole Smith/Daniel fic - I have no room to talk, I believe. My glass house is lovely, and there will be no rocks thrown. I do feel, however, that 6A has the right to run their business as they see fit. That's just the name of the game. (And considering that MySpace found tens of THOUSANDS of pedophiles on their servers... I can see why 6A is acting as they are, whether we like it or not. And whether there is an actual threat there, which, statistically, there isn't: .02% of the profiles were offenders, isn't something 6A/LJ is concerned with.) They just need to be UPFRONT about their WANTS.
I'm not going to talk about what has merit, etc. I think the REAL issue (and one the 6A/LJ is doing a crap job of saying) is that this is about what a COMPANY wants on their equipment, period. If they're going public (and I bet you diamonds to donuts they are and I am jumping on that IPO like it's 1999 - ahahaha, um, anyone get that? Stock/IPO boom?) they want to cater to the potential stock holders. Like it or hate it, that's the situation (from their standpoint) as I see it.
And you know, if you have something that you think might be questionable? Put it behind a lock. That's such a simple solution, imo (Thank you, Maren for saying it so succinctly.) I've locked my fic that could fall under "questionable" and it will remain that way. If someone isn't 18, they aren't going to be on my flist, period. [ETA] Evidently that may not matter? *head desk*
And those are my thoughts onyaoi the sitch.
[ETA 2]
For the record: I think that LJ/6A is handling this all badly. I've posted about that before, but I wanted to clarify. I feel that warning should be given, that a COMPLETE and CONCISE explanation on all the LJ-run comms to insure everyone sees the new policy shoudl be done.
Also: I've gone to this post to find out how to configure Semagic to post to multiple journals at once. It took me a bit and I found the following helpful:
1. Make sure you have the latest version of Semagic
2. Make sure on the login screen (the first thing that pops up) is your NORMAL username.
3. When you click "File, Server Settings," DO NOT put the addendum (lj or gj or ij whatever) in your username THERE.
4. On the INITIAL LOG IN SCREEN, add stoney321 gj (your username, obv.) and it will go through.
5. When you're ready to post, hit "journal, post to multiple journals" and you should see the normal livejournal login and the new gj log in. Voila!
NIFTY!
Also, I'm not going to move to loads of sites, like I see people doing. Guys, I'm getting too old for this shit. [/every buddy cop movie made] I have Semagic and I've heard that you can do double posting, so I'm looking into that. I found the LJ backup tool, ljArchive, incredibly simple to use - plus, it has a search device that rocks. (You can find anything from a random comment with ___ topic, etc. etc.)
As for the banhammer controversy, look. I personally do not find those images hot, a turn on, whatever. But you know what? I find Will Ferrell hot, and people look at me like I'm a freak, so... :D I've written Anna Nicole Smith/Daniel fic - I have no room to talk, I believe. My glass house is lovely, and there will be no rocks thrown. I do feel, however, that 6A has the right to run their business as they see fit. That's just the name of the game. (And considering that MySpace found tens of THOUSANDS of pedophiles on their servers... I can see why 6A is acting as they are, whether we like it or not. And whether there is an actual threat there, which, statistically, there isn't: .02% of the profiles were offenders, isn't something 6A/LJ is concerned with.) They just need to be UPFRONT about their WANTS.
I'm not going to talk about what has merit, etc. I think the REAL issue (and one the 6A/LJ is doing a crap job of saying) is that this is about what a COMPANY wants on their equipment, period. If they're going public (and I bet you diamonds to donuts they are and I am jumping on that IPO like it's 1999 - ahahaha, um, anyone get that? Stock/IPO boom?) they want to cater to the potential stock holders. Like it or hate it, that's the situation (from their standpoint) as I see it.
And you know, if you have something that you think might be questionable? Put it behind a lock. That's such a simple solution, imo (Thank you, Maren for saying it so succinctly.) I've locked my fic that could fall under "questionable" and it will remain that way. If someone isn't 18, they aren't going to be on my flist, period. [ETA] Evidently that may not matter? *head desk*
And those are my thoughts on
[ETA 2]
For the record: I think that LJ/6A is handling this all badly. I've posted about that before, but I wanted to clarify. I feel that warning should be given, that a COMPLETE and CONCISE explanation on all the LJ-run comms to insure everyone sees the new policy shoudl be done.
Also: I've gone to this post to find out how to configure Semagic to post to multiple journals at once. It took me a bit and I found the following helpful:
1. Make sure you have the latest version of Semagic
2. Make sure on the login screen (the first thing that pops up) is your NORMAL username.
3. When you click "File, Server Settings," DO NOT put the addendum (lj or gj or ij whatever) in your username THERE.
4. On the INITIAL LOG IN SCREEN, add stoney321 gj (your username, obv.) and it will go through.
5. When you're ready to post, hit "journal, post to multiple journals" and you should see the normal livejournal login and the new gj log in. Voila!
NIFTY!
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Date: 2007-08-04 03:39 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-08-04 03:41 pm (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 2007-08-04 03:40 pm (UTC)Locked fic and pics WERE NOT SAFE. A journal has already been suspended, even though the information was LOCKED. That doesn't work. If you want to be safe, you will have to leave LJ for someplace that likes their users and isn't interested in paying lipservice to their TOS.
I can *NOT* see why 6A is acting like they are -- they reviewed an art piece between OF AGE people, not child pornography at all, and deemed it to NOT BE ART, despite it being created by a professional artist that is good enough to be invited to OTHER COUNTRIES for her work.
I am certain this is about removing controversial information from their servers in advance of an IPO attempt. I will do my best to join every forum where such things are discussed to spread the press of just how 6A/LJ treats customers, and that stockholders should expect similar treatment, and investment would be a poor decision. That's how strongly I feel about their actions.
I also feel this is an outgrowth of fear at 6A in the conservative US government, as they claim to be using the Miller test, but aren't using a community standard to validate art. They are becoming a dictatorship, which is NOT a valid business model if they want public ownership. Nor is it valid for a business that opens its doors to anyone that wants to create a journal.
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Date: 2007-08-04 03:46 pm (UTC)I just saw your wife's post about how locked pics/fic aren't any safer and added an ETA. GAH. That changes things for me - I'm definitely leaving things here (I'm sure not all of my flist will leave), but moving to other sites just in case. I don't typically post stuff that's questionable (except for my wacky sense of humor, har har) but this little "Crucible" button they're adding to every post? Yeah. It'll work out as well now as it did in 1600s Salem. o_0
This is definitely a knee-jerk reaction on LJ's part. It seems so opposite to what they used to be/represent. I think they're about to have a rude awakening from their clientelle leaving en masse.
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Date: 2007-08-04 03:47 pm (UTC)Boy, we sure do branch away from LJ user names, huh?
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Date: 2007-08-04 03:47 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-08-04 03:53 pm (UTC)So while locking may not guarantee safety, it can only help.
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Date: 2007-08-04 03:58 pm (UTC)The ugliness is just breathtaking, right? (I still hold to the opinion that if you think it's questionable, flock. You're right: it can only help.)
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Date: 2007-08-04 04:16 pm (UTC)You might be interested in "Step 3" too. There's another tool, LJ-Sec, that has two important functions. It allows you to easily change the security on any LJ (or LJ clone) post. It also allows you to repost any or all of your LJ entries to one of the clone services. I copied my entire journal over to GJ, IJ and JF. Then I started cross posting to all 4 services using Semagic.
You don't get the comments, which is unpleasant, but it is a way to save all posts.
I'm Justhuman everywhere, in case your looking, and I just friended you on GJ.
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Date: 2007-08-04 04:20 pm (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 2007-08-04 04:27 pm (UTC)I still think its frightening that they are explicit in what constitutes at child pornography. All those Snape/Harry shippers out there are technically doing something wrong, yet I don't think I would know that had I not seen your post
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Date: 2007-08-04 04:46 pm (UTC)One of the pictures in question involved an 11 year old Harry (first year at Hogwarts) and Snape's... leavings. On Harry's face. Some people dig that, fine. I don't, but I don't see why the artist can't post it off site and link to it. That seems fair to me, but then, my journal wasn't deleted without a by your leave like that artist's was. *shrug*
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Date: 2007-08-04 04:36 pm (UTC)I'm really not cool with what LJ's doing, how they're handling stuff, and the fact that they'll delete, purge and permanently ban users who actually FLOCK their stuff really annoys me. And the fact that people are being turned in by their own flists--it's a batshit crazy time. It is not at all cool.
I'm on GJ and IJ under the same name, if you're interested. Also,
Also, I am totally willing to host any images/fic people off my flist might be considered about at my domain, cityofdemons.com (http://cityofdemons.com). LJ has a thing in their TOS that says they're not responsible for off-LJ stuff people link to.
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Date: 2007-08-04 04:38 pm (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 2007-08-04 04:42 pm (UTC)But, I don't want it mislabeled as child porn and the artist put on a sex offendors list, either. There's already too much damage being done- both to people assigned to the list for trivialities but more importantly to society's ability to distinguish between really dangerous people and those who have sublimated their dangerous urges sufficiently not to hurt anyone (by this I am absolutely excluding photographic/video porn). Muddying the waters about the nature and danger of the offense just makes it harder to pay attention to the actual human victims, who get the least attention of all.
There was a bit of by-play earlier this week about the difference between being catty in private and in public, which maybe is relevant here: there are times and places to let our anti-social yayas out, and refusing to recognize that distinction is probably a manifestation of the death wish.
Julia, my manifestation of the death wish, today, has to do with going to a Polish wedding and eating a little of everything.
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Date: 2007-08-04 04:52 pm (UTC)It seems like a bandaid to NOT HELP people who really are victims. I get the strong suspicion that the mindset (once 6A has everything in its place) will be, "mischief managed." And that will be it. And... that's not really stopping/helping people who are abusers or will be.
It's all just such ugliness. GAH.
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Date: 2007-08-04 05:03 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-08-04 05:35 pm (UTC)The idea that I (or anyone) could wake up and find your journal gone with no recourse? That's horrifying to me. Warnings/notice should be given, especially an oppt. to explain/defend oneself.
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Date: 2007-08-04 05:12 pm (UTC)I think the way LJ is handling this is underhanded and sneaky and overall craptastic. I think LJ sucks in all of this. But I also think people need to get a grip, see the concerns, and address them within the community. Locked fic and artwork is a start, as is buying your own webspace and putting up creative works on your own dollar under your own authority if it truly exists on the line.
The fact of the matter is, people who are not in fandom don't understand the intent or purpose of adult-rated creativity, and are frankly freaked the fuck out by it. On one hand, it's none of their business and isn't *for* them so who cares. On the other hand, it's only smart to realize the potential implications of Betty Sue next door seeing your Year 1 Harry/Snape porn and raising a hoo-ha at her big Southern Baptist Church which is also attended by the local police chief and a journalist for the local paper.
We have a very special community that is creative and inclusive in all the ways that are important. But from what I can see, the biggest response to LJ's concerns and actions has been a big hysterical how dare you rather than a critical look at the issue and an attempt to come up with a better, more reasonable solution on our own terms.
Totally unpopular opinion, I know, but I think fandom needs to put our big girl pants on and think about what we can do other than scatter in the journalling wind. I'm totally in support of the collective us deciding that what's at issue here is LJ's handling of the situation, and moving to a different server. But I think what *has* to come with that is a willingness to look at the issue at hand-- underage pornish work that walks the line of legality (or that appears to do so to a great number of non-fannish people, in any case)-- and figure out some other solution than we can do whatever we want, wherever we want, so there. Otherwise, these same issues will continue to occur.
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Date: 2007-08-04 05:39 pm (UTC)I don't understand why it's such an affront to move your questionable material off site. I really don't understand. I do, however, think LJ needs to quit acting like assholes and make a blanket statement that is CLEAR and CONCISE and not hide their reasons. And they should give fair warning, imo.
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Date: 2007-08-04 05:56 pm (UTC)It's nice to see that the LJ kerfuffle that was in full swing when I disappeared is back again, it's like I didn't miss a thing.
LJ is obviously handling this very poorly, but they are completely within their rights. The current political atmosphere certainly doesn't help matters as people seem to be unable/unwilling to draw a distinction between fantasy which may involve disturbing elements and actual child pornography in which children are hurt. Personally, I can't even read g-rated Potter fic, never mind chan, but to each his own.
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Date: 2007-08-04 06:01 pm (UTC)And yes to your last paragraph to all but the Potter dislike, hahaha! :D
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Date: 2007-08-04 06:12 pm (UTC)I don't think anybody has a problem with 6A saying "we don't want this or this on our servers". The problem lies in their complete inability to give clear direction on what is and is not allowed, their (apparent) inability to distinguish between borderline content that could be solved with a selective post delete and real goddamn predators that need to be permanently banned (one of whom - at last report - still had an active journal. The woman who complained about him was told not to take 'his jokes' so seriously.), 6A's apparent inability to have a clear and consistent policy, their inability to hire a single person to be responsible for administering and/or explaining said policy, leading to obnoxious and contradictory posting, the deceitful practices which insult their userbase, and their Animal Farm approach to their (not available for review) ever-changing TOS.
I'm probably going to be moving sometime in the near future. I've loved it here, but frankly, I don't want to lose all my posts when they decide they don't like something I've posted (and make no mistake - if they have such a wild overreaction to a single sketch of fictitious men who look like they could be 18, then eventually, they'll get around to other erotic content, too. And once the troll button has been implemented, then what about when some Mormon doesn't like what you posted? Or some fundie whack-job doesn't like me posting Pagan content? What happens when the 'abuse' team gets so overloaded that they just delete without ANY investigation?)
::is disgusted:: I won't be renewing my paid membership.
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Date: 2007-08-04 06:20 pm (UTC)Their lack of being clear and concise is just compounding LJ's problems. People should be given warnings and the chance to move questionable material offsite instead of possibly losing everything, absolutely.
The troll button is HORRIFYING. I cannot support that, and I think your scenario has a likely possibility. And the fact that an ACTUAL MOLESTER still has an account speaks volumes about LJ's ability to porperly police their site. GOOD HELL.
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Date: 2007-08-04 06:16 pm (UTC)I agree. I think there has to be some kind of self-imposed litmus test for posting unlocked fannish works. Like, "would I show this to my boss/client/coworker who has said in passing that they like Buffy?" If not, why? Could there be consequences and what are they? If the consequences are that boss/client/coworker look at you weird and gossip behind your back about what a freak you are, then whatever. But if the consequences are that someone might report you to the police or some other agency because they have kids themselves or maybe were abused and they are concerned about the legality of what you're doing, maybe you shouldn't show your boss/client/coworker. And maybe, just maybe, you could extend that logic to the online world and lock creations that push at legal boundaries so that someone has to at least know enough about fandom to find it, and ask to see it.
My fandoms are "safer" in that they don't involve underage activity (well, Buffy could but I typically avoid high school fic *because* of this), but I still take some basic precautions to try to keep real life people from finding my stuff. Why? Because I'm aware that my hobby could be seen as strange and potentially uncomfortably pervy by people who work with me and seek professional services from me and while I think that's too bad, it's reality. My questionable fandom activity is RPF, which I lock precisely because of potential legal issues. I just find it difficult to fully understand and be sympathetic to the camp who refuse to self-regulate in any way at all no matter what.
I also agree that LJ is acting like a nefarious big brother and they need to be clear and concise and transparent. And I also agree that fair warning is important-- people should be given the opportunity to think about their options and make a decision before being banned and losing their journals.
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Date: 2007-08-04 06:17 pm (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 2007-08-04 11:09 pm (UTC)I understand that the law itself is pretty iffy on the line between okay and not okay, but if LJ's worried, they need to set their own VERY SPECIFIC standards, even more conservative than the law if they feel it's necessary, but at least *tell* us.
This was totally the wrong place to rant about this because you acknowledged yourself that the way they're handling it is wrong, but I just needed an outlet and happened to see your post first, sorry! I'm also likely to stick with LJ, especially because I have nothing to worry about personally as everything I post is pretty much PG-13 at worst, but if fandom as a whole moves elsewhere, I'll follow. I don't know how likely that really is, though, in spite of mass dedicated planning.
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Date: 2007-08-04 11:36 pm (UTC)I wonder about the moving, too. Another person on my flist (big into HP) commented that the days of the Big Name Fans in HP are done (Cassie Clare, etc.) but if this was happening during the BNF heyday? (the times of Laptop-gate, etc.) Fandom would DEF. move en masse to a new spot. But people have their little niches, so... Everyone isn't going to move, but I'll keep double posting to GJ and LJ and reading both flists to keep as many of you as I can.
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Date: 2007-08-05 01:14 am (UTC)However, I would encourage you to get an Insane Journal...just in case. I've heard grumblings of the same sort of stuff that's going on here begining to surface at GJ. IJ has made it fairly clear that unless a DMAC or court order was involved they wouldn't delete or suspend anyone.
That makes me a bit more comfortable with IJ as a fallback.
But I'm going to try to hold on to LJ with all my claws and teeth. But if my friends start an exodus I may do a lemming.
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Date: 2007-08-05 01:26 am (UTC)Since I bought a damned permanent account, it does me no good to leave here entirely. They have my money, and leaving just gives them the money without providing service, so... *hands*
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Date: 2007-08-05 01:51 am (UTC)I could not figure it out from snapestoy's instructions, FTLOG!
Now I think I have it set to xpost to IJ, GJ, JF, LJ...and that's all for now. Four seems enough, good gravy.
Whew. I'm about to topple over.
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Date: 2007-08-05 01:53 am (UTC)Are you happy with IJ? It seems like a lot of people I like are there, so I'm considering getting an account there. (Obv. I'm not using my Vox accout any more. I was never happy with that set up in the first place, truth be told.)
*rubs your shoulders*
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Date: 2007-08-05 02:38 am (UTC)It's all so frustrating.
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Date: 2007-08-05 02:43 am (UTC):( I'm sorry you're having problems! maybe the Semagic comm on LJ can provide an answer? (do a search up top for them under "interests" and it's the first one, if I remember correctly.)
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Date: 2007-08-05 03:18 am (UTC):)
I'm pretty much in agreement with everything you've said here.
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Date: 2007-08-05 04:41 am (UTC)(I'm st_salieri over at GreatestJournal, by the way. FRIEND ME OR I CUT YOU.)
Nifty thing about the cross-posting. I guess this means I'll have to actually d/l Semagic now. I've been stuck in the dark ages using the LJ posting system.
I'd be more willing to give LJ/6A the benefit of the doubt if they'd stop making asses out of themselves in public (http://community.livejournal.com/efw/117416.html?thread=2475176#t2475176). But that would be too much to ask. There's so much fail going around, I guess they found out that they had to jump on or get left behind.
Hey, I may or may not be up in your neck of the woods next weekend.
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Date: 2007-08-05 12:54 pm (UTC)Also, really?!?! Yay!! Are you coming up on bidness? Wanna hook up for food and a beverage and fannish enjoyment? Shoot me an email and I give you my digits, etc.
Ooooooh, I hope we can hook up!
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Date: 2007-08-05 06:16 am (UTC)Here's the thing, honestly, I don't wanna move, I don't want to start over. I will if it comes to that but the bottom-line is I. don't. wanna.
And I also have no real issue with LJ decisions as to what they'll host or not, but my hackles are up over their execution (pun intended) of it.
If there was a big move I wish we could all collectively choose one place and go there. I'm hating this scattering to the winds thing. And x-posting is gonna get... weird.
That said, I've had my GJ account for a few years (with one, count it, one post) and I made an IJ so I could check it out. I'm really digging the prospect of http://www.scribblit.com, I only have one qualm but eh, we'll see how it goes.
*covets a JF account*
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Date: 2007-08-05 12:56 pm (UTC)I saw the scribblit beta thing, which, neat, but it is limiting (because that person is paying for it out of their pocket.) And since there's not a lot of space for Fandom At Large, I don't see that many people will flee there. I'll watch stuff (if you can do that?) but I doubt I'll move to a place I can't use Semagic to update. *shrug*
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Date: 2007-08-05 08:08 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-08-05 10:29 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-08-07 08:22 pm (UTC)[via
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Date: 2007-08-07 08:26 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-08-07 08:55 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-08-07 09:09 pm (UTC)Once you've done that, click "log in"
Your username and password shows up.
Click on "File" then "Server Settings"
Change "www.livejournal.com" to greatestjournal.com or insanejournal.com or journalfen.com.
Make sure your user name/password are EXACTLY HOW THEY SHOULD BE.
Hit "ok"
on the initial LOG IN SCREEN, change darlas_mom to darlas_mom GJ, or whichever.
Click "remember password" and "auto_login"
Log in.
Then, hit the "logout" button on the top toolbar, and change it for the next journal you use (i.e.: you just added GJ, now you want to add IJ.) Follow the exact same steps.
Type your post (test to start) then click on "Journal," then "Post to multiple journals"
A window opens with all the new accounts you've added, be sure they're all checked.
There you go!
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Date: 2007-08-20 08:03 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-08-20 01:17 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-08-22 01:04 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-08-22 01:56 pm (UTC)