In which I ramble on about RPS, the do's the don'ts, the wills the won'ts

[stoney321]

First off, glad no one got pissed at my last post, and thanks for the discussion. Feel free to spam that post, if you have more to say.

I'm going to take a sharp, wrong-turn (if loving RPS is wrong, I don't wanna be...) from Jesus-speak to my latest obsession: RPS. Don't get me wrong (um, have I started yet? Is this thing on?): I've never thought RPS (or RPF) was reprehensible, or morally wrong, or whatever. Because no matter how many facts about the real person you know, you don't *know* them. You are creating a tale, it isn't *real* although it may come amazingly close. So, for those that are squicked by RPS(F), and I know there are a lot of you out there, is it because of the "R?" Because I'm here to tell you: it AIN'T real. Not until I find the right lamp and give it a good rub, that is.


There are certain characters from certain shows that I *love* reading RPS about. *cough*Vincent Kartheiser*cough* And there are those that I don't. Having said that, I have some people on my flist that I ADORE that write the characters I don't read. And I've wondered lately why not. What is it about those famous people that makes me not want to peep at their sex-lives? I loved the character onscreen, after all. crazydiamondsue and I have talked about and around this many times. I... Hmmm. People like (for example) Christian Kane. I *love* the character Lindsey from Angel. Found him sexy, smart, interesting. But I'm not so interested in following "Christian Kane" around. But. Someone (neverneverfic?) wrote a SMOKING hot fic with VK/DB/CK that made me break out in a sweat. But I don't seek him out. Just... not my bag. Even though I have lovely people around here that write him, and write him WELL. I'd warrant that there are things *I* write that they don't enjoy, and no harm done. Even if I think it's the best thing I've written, whatever. We all have our tastes.

But here's where I think it really lies with me: TV stars vs. Move stars. Somehow, I feel more intimate, more friendly with the TV stars. Is it because I "bring them into my home?" Mainly. Is it because I pour over season after season of Buffy and Angel, listen to the commentaries and become "friends" with them? Dude, I know that sounds lame and creepy, but you *know* you know what I'm talking 'bout, Willis. And Movie stars... Well, they just do a better job of acting in RL, don't they? They seem more manufactured. *cough*Tom Cruise*cough* TV stars don't have such a PR campaign. Well, except for Jennifer Love Hewitt, and one day we'll figure out just how well she sucks dick, because come ON.

And as lame as this is going to sound, I get nervous with most TV character RPS. (Except for Tom Welling, because he's a fucking STAR, baby, and I don't read Clex because I'm scared of my image of TW being tarnished. And I'm a Mega-Dork.) Part of me (the irrational part) feels like I'm reading a fic about a close friend. Or because I have this picture in my mind, and it's getting screwed around with, and I *liked* that picture in my mind, I thank you, and ... Waaah.

But on the flip side, I know I'm missing out on some REALLY good fic. Because (points above) it's FICTION, RPS haters. David Boreanaz and Nicky Brendon aren't gay. They aren't fucking each other. But... Sorry. Just got a mental image of the pretty. *sigh* Or... ( fill in with names here ) This is not meant as a character bash, a writer bash, a PREDILECTION bash, or any such thing. This is me laying out the whizzing thoughts in my head. I guess... I want to cuddle my dolls and not let other kids play with them? Huh. I'm a brat.

And then there's that thing I have about not wanting to read a lot of a particular pairing because *I* am writing that pairing. And I'm afraid I'm going to lift ideas, or be influenced by that writer's vision. Does anyone else think that? An example for this would be kita0160 and ros_fod's fics about JM/VK. It's such a fully realized universe, that there are times if I start to sketch out a story, I start to pull "facts" from their universe. And man, I didn't get permission to play with their dolls, you know? And maybe their dolls are a bit different than mine? And then when is it that I'm just writing an homage to those girls, and not writing my original image, but maybe... Gah. Is any of this making sense? Am I trying to say I respect the other's vision and don't want to ruin it, too? Yeah, there's a lot of that. And there's mixed in my own chin-jutting self-preservation thrown in to complicate matters further.

I'll give you another example: Ewan and Hayden. I have a very clear idea of those two (made-up lovers) boys in my head, and their relationship dynamics. And there is a LOT of RPS being written about them. Some of it is fucking awful. And there are some that blow me away. But they see them as particular characters, and I... just don't. So I may stop reading someone's fic, even though they are fantastic writers, because I have this niggling thought that it will influence me. But then there's something that is SO unique, so opposite but well articulated that I just can't help it. The "Color of Wheat" series by ethrosdemon and hackthis is what I'm talking about. They have EVERYBODY there: Viggo/Orli, Tom/Michael, hell, Jake Gyllenhaal just showed up. And it's fucking crackfantastic.

And you may have noticed that in my last RPS fic, the James Marsters/Vincent Kartheiser fic, that I had them around other celebrities. And part of me worries that it's copying somehow? But then, I could just SEE it. *shrugs* Maybe I'm just trying to figure out what I think about writing, period. I've just recently decided that I'm just a vanilla writer. Period. I like writing "backside" over ass. I like writing "erection" instead of cock. Sometimes cock will do, but not often. For *me.* But when I read? GIMMIE THE DIRTY WORDS. Doesn't bother me. (Unless there's a leaking or weeping cock. Or warm, soupy egression. *hurls and readies penicillin shot*) But I know this is just my thing, for the most part. Well, not the soup. We're all on board with that being horribly, HORRIBLY wrong as a word choice.

I cannot stress enough that I appreciate the enormous amount of talent on my flist in the RPS world. Just because I'm not reading your particular fic, doesn't mean I don't recognize the talent there. I just may be absorbed in something else, or, not as into the pairing as you. And it's a fair trade, as I know there are a lot of folks on MY flist who don't read a lot of what I put out there. (But goddamit, my incest/vampire/orphanage MUSICAL set in Calcutta is fucking PERFECTION! Heh.) All's fair, man.


But I want to hear the whys and why nots on RPS from you. What about it gets you going? Or, on the converse side (quarter-tops), what about it squicks you? For those into it: Why *that* pair(s)? How did you start? Who did you first start reading? What are you reading now? Why aren't you reccing the good shit to me? Heee! Spam away! It's too hot to play... outside. Rhyming is cool!

(And it should go without saying: no bashing posters for liking/not liking something. It's okay to say that you feel a certain way about the topic, but you shouldn't insult someone for their likes/dislikes, mm'kay? Let the games begin!)

CRAP! Also: I need some Hayden Christensen/Ian Sommerhlederbergmanstein RPS. May have to get on that... Because Boone? Is a dirty rotten sister fucker, and Hayden wants to talk about wanting his daddy/brother!figure. I'm wrong.

Comments

(frozen)

[trepkos.livejournal.com]

I don't want to read about characters I don't care about.
And if its a fictional character, that's OK.
But if it's a real person I'm reading about, I wouldn't want to read if I didn't care about them, and it follows that I can't help thinking how they might feel if they read it, or read about it... and it seems like some of them might be OK with it and some of them might be really upset by it...
I've read some... but I'm not happy with myself for doing it.
I know they're just like made-up characters in RPS, but if I believed that, while I was reading it, I wouldn't want to bother reading...
...does that make any sense?

(frozen)

[stoney321.livejournal.com]

It does. I'm not *looking* for Kevin Spacey RPS because I'm not interested in his sex life. But. he keeps popping up (humorously) in a few fics I'm reading, and it makes me laugh. But I don't seek him out.

And the whole "I wonder what they would think if they saw this" is an interesting (and, ME, TOO!) idea, because I wonder if subconsciously you(we) think you'll meet him? And he'll *know* you read about him and a Thai hooker doing things with weasels? And then you just blew your shot at being friends in RL? Just me?

Am I seriously the only person here that has imaginary conversations with celebrities while I shower?

HA HA HA!!

[southernbangel.livejournal.com]

I don't like RPS myself because to me, it seems too real. (No f'n joke, yeah?) What I mean is, and please excuse the incoherentness of my answer, when I read fanfiction, whatever pairing it may be, I picture the character(s) who, in my mind, are completely separate from the actor(s). If I read a B/A fic, I don't picture SMG-as-Buffy and DB-as-Angel; I picture Buffy and Angel. Same for any other characters. A hot A/S fic? I see *Angel* screwing *Spike* into the mattress, not DB fucking JM. Logically I *know* that when I picture Angel I'm picturing DB because hey, he is the actor. Angel may look like DB but he is *not* DB. He has his own quirks and foibles which lets me differentiate between the actor and the character.

So with RPS, I don't have that, I guess you could call "safety net" of the line between character and actor. With a DB/CK fic, you can only picture DB and CK... and for me, I'm not comfortable doing that. Yes, it is a made-up story (DB and CK didn't really get it on at a con... we don't think *g*) and the authors will twist the characters into what they see as DB and CK, but to me, it's still DB and CK, actors that I'm fond of but don't particularly want to imagine in a sexual relationship (unless, of course, it is a DB/Lee fic then all is good *g*). It doesn't mean that people who do like it are icky or whatever nonsense people say. (Believe me, I get plenty of "God, that pairing is so dumb!" for my OTP; I'm certainly not about to bash someone else) It's just not my cup of tea. B/A fics aren't for everyone and neither is RPS.

But hey, if it makes you happy, I say go for it.

[stoney321.livejournal.com]

No, no, I understand what you are saying. I *see* Buffy, not Sarah. I know just what you mean. And when I read about David taking Vincent to task for not doing him right and proper, boy, I see David and Vinnie. Mmmm. Naked, muscles flexing... Ha! So, point taken and totally understood.

So, now I'll ask you the second portion of the RPS "debate" up there: is there a difference between the TV Star and Movie Star in your head? Are movie stars more fictional for RPS? Say... Brad Pitt? Or fill in the blank with hot actor you love.

[swmbo.livejournal.com]

See, I don't think there's anything weird in liking RPS of some actors and not others, any more than in characters. And there are actors where I like reading RPS fic about them but don't read fic about their characters, and vice versa. WHY I like RPS about specific characters might be different, but I think...

It possibly simply goes into specific kinks I have, and which 'fit' those better, in roles. More like casting them for a script than anything else. And at some level, certain characteristics can become canon in larger RPS communities, such as in LotRPS. Jossverse RPS is significantly smaller, but even then you can get huge impact from a few fics - sometimes good, sometimes bad.

I have trouble writing/seeing James/Vinnie and not seeing Kita and Fod's, because they impacted me so hard. On the other hand, I can obviously picture Vince himself totally different when I write him with Orlando. So it makes no sense on that front.

But I am with you on the fact that I don't read the bulk of the fic on my flist, and it has nothing to do with the writers, only with my own weird tastes and randomness about when I read fic and what it'll be. Like the fact that I wrote Lost fic but I do not READ Lost fic and still have no desire to whatsoever. And the fic I read most is in fandoms I don't write in and often can't even imagine writing in. My head is a crazy place.

[stoney321.livejournal.com]

Hey, Tootsie-pop!

YES YES YES to your comment. I TOTALLY see Kita's and Fod's Vinnie/James. I felt so self-conscious with the last little peek at them, because man, hasn't it been DONE? You know? Not looking for sunshine up my ass, just recognizing weakness/strengths.

And yeah, when I write him somewhere, he becomes MINE, but it's like there's a shadow of someone else's characterization hanging over. Like a shimmer over a hot road.

ANd I do NOT read Lost fic, but I wrote one, and I've read a couple that I like *cough* so I know what you mean. I think I say this as a "please forgive" to the writers on my flist I adore, but don't always pick up every fic they write.

I like your thought on "casting." That's EXACTLY what it is. And I'd eat my shirt if I found a Viggo fic written in the past two years that didn't have him as a kook. Loveable and intriguing, but just... Viggo. And there ain't NOTHING wrong with that.

And yeah, to the kink aspect. Somethings I just want. Somethings I could do without, I thank you. (Hurt Connor and make him sad. Worship Vinnie and try to crack a smile. So, so different in my mind.)

You ask I Babble

[bitchygrrl.livejournal.com]

I just started reading RPS 2 weeks ago. I'd always avoided it because it seems on some level invasive, and frankly I feel a little guilty. Even-though we know this doesn't happen I have to wonder how the actors feel about it. I mean I wouldn't want a character w/ my name doing things I didn't like. That said I will still read it, because it is my guilty pleasure. Ewan/Hayden did it, they are the only pairing I read. Well yesterday I saw somebody's *cough, cough* VK/JM fic. I think EM/HC did it for me because they both seem to have be comfortable with a little ambiguity, so I buy it from them. There just seems to be something there. There is good fic about them that is well written, but I see HC as far more dom than he is generally written. My HC doll comes with full topping action, but most writers don't see him that way. *big sigh* Everyone has their vision. I usually just share my fic with friends hard-copy, but maybe I'll post. My toys get a little (okay more than a little) kinky. But my friends know me so no flame on my Angel/Connor fics. Sorry got off topic.As to reading other writers while working I understand what you mean about being influenced, when I'm writing I don't read anything in that arena, until I'm done my work. Especially w/ my screenwriting I feel it's important not copy even unconciously.

Re: You ask I Babble

[stoney321.livejournal.com]

Yeah, it's that back of the mind (where did this come from?) that stops me cold some days.

Mmmm. Top Hayden. YES MA'AM. Tennis, people! Competitive as the day is long, and hooray for that!

[mpoetess.livejournal.com]

RPS tends to be much like original slash (aka gay-themed stories about original characters, usually written by people who also write fanfic, and usually similar in style -- in a way that's hard to describe -- to fanfic) for me. In both cases it's hard for me to get into a lot of it because it seems like some of the shortcuts we use with fanfic -- both with plot and with character development -- are brought into a completely new situation where those shortcuts don't work.

A fanfic that concentrates mostly on the relationship and only touches on the plot aspects of the series in passing (yup, Spike's a vampire; he can play fun tricks while fucking in front of a mirror) is easy to get into because I already know the characters, know the universe, have a million and one associations with certain lines or pieces of history. Same with "Who is this guy and why do I care about seeing him fuck?" Joss did the character development for me, so the fanfic author doesn't need to make me give a damn about Xander before I'll invest myself in the story.

With original slash, or RPS, which is pretty close to original slash, there's a big "Why should I care about these characters" factor, that frequently isn't overcome enough for me to want to read on, or even want to read more of the same genre. I'm not suggesting all RPS or all original slash has this problem, but more that one thing I've noticed when I've read both and not been especially moved by the story, is that there's not enough there of the characters. There's names and some personality quirks, but they aren't developed over time, based on events and adventures that I also got to watch, as the characters in fanfic are, or the characters in mainstream novels are. It feels like that fanfic skills are being applied to a medium where they don't entirely fit.

OTOH, another reason I tend not to get into RPS or a lot of original slash is the actual genre -- I like my conflicted bisexual vampires and goofy conflicted post-teens in love with conflicted bisexual vampires. And witches, and werewolves, and all other sorts of fantasy and SF and horror-fantasy settings. So some of the non-attraction to RPF is me, and probably some of what seems like the fanfic-style problem is actually me just not being interested in the setting, and thus getting picky and dissatisfied with everything else as well. I have little interest in the entertainment industry as a story setting, which tends to make both actorfic and boyband fic fairly unsparkly to my roving eyes.

On the third hand, the one growing out of my ass, apparently, there is RPS and original slash with supernatural settings and themes, and I haven't really sought that out much either; I'm not sure how much of that is just brand-loyalty to certain existing fandoms, or apathy, or fear that the supernatural setting will be more like a supernatural trapping, to make the sex kinkier and the angst angstier, but not really a story about vampires and werewolves doing vampire and werewolf things.

[mpoetess.livejournal.com]

All of which on reflection answered precisely zero of your questions, since RPS doesn't squick me at all, so mostly that was a lot of rambling on why I never seem to be able to get very interested in it, though I've dabbled in the reading end of the pool every so often, and played in RPF parody games (where it was definitely the high humor content, the fun of really trying to parody someone, that attracted me, and I tended to lose interest when things got serious and more like traditional RPF).

[julia-here.livejournal.com]

I don't do RPF/S for a lot of reasons,and found myself agreeing particularly with mpoetess and southernbangel (Hi, Lee!) especially. I need the distance of pure fiction, and the context of fantasy/sf to get interested in the story (and oh, man, do I need story; almost all PWP is as boring to me as reading plumbing specs).

I have a lot of trouble getting into whole other aspects of fannish expression, too: very pornish manips, for instance. I feel as if I'm invading the privacy of the subject, in those cases, and it discomforts me. Whether or not it is an invasion of privacy is not the issue; I feel as if I'm peeping, it's a feeling I don't like, and so I avoid it.

Julia, fearing I may not be making sufficient sense

[stoney321.livejournal.com]

PWP is what I read late at night when I can't get to sleep. I like SOMETHING happening aside from thrusting, I thank you.

And I hear you on the peeping aspect. Oh, the pornish manips! GAH!! I... feel they are just like what you said. It's the pencil drawings that make me most uncomfortable. Makes me think of someone doodling in highschool on a pad and putting their face on Superman's or something. Not sure how to articulate thoughts on THAT, but... yeah. Not my bag.

I'm fine without the fantastical, but gimmie a story. Make them *do* or *say* something, please. I like those fics best of all.

[dlgood.livejournal.com]

See for me, I don't read RPS because they're real. And if the real (insert hot chick from my rotating list of 10) doesn't randomly drop into my lap and start making out with me, I just don't need to know specifics about whatever RPFictitous action is going on. It's real and it feels weird.

Plus, I've been on TV. And having been exposed to the world of Kita and Fod, I'm now vaguely squicked by the idea that someone out there is writing (for example) Dave/RegisPhilbin slash. And I start feeling guilt and sympathy over my own projection of actual celebrities possibly being squicked by folks RPFing them. Which, is probably pretty weird.

[stoney321.livejournal.com]

O_O

I think I can speak for everyone to say that you would not be paired with Regis.

That being said, I know what you are saying about the privacy issue, and what if you DID come across porn written about you? By some sweaty, comb-over guy in his fifties? That's bug the hell out of me.

And then there's the whole "what is private with a public person" thought that pops in my head. TV Stars generally fall into the "give them their privacy" category, and Movie Stars fall into the latter.

But that's a cheat on many levels, I *know* this, but... This could turn into a big fanfiction is valid/not valid fair/unfair argument.

When what I really want is a story to read. Quit making me feel bad!! :-D

[sweptawaybayou.livejournal.com]

Well ...

I think you know which side of the fence I come down on the RPS debate. I love it. I read it. I write it. The boys play in my head nonfuckingstop and nevershutup. Oops. That might be just a little tmi.

I know its not real. I would never assume that David and Chris are lovers, but oh my, what a pretty picture that makes. I always ask people, which I did a few times at WriterCon, what, to them, is the difference between reading an AU fic where Spike and Angel are human and have jobs and gas pains and eat steak while out on their Saturday night dates and reading an RPS story where David fucks Chris through a bed?

And I always got/get the same answer.

Because its too real.

For me, as a writer, if I can make a story between David Boreanaz, Christian Kane and yes, Vincent Kartheiser (*g*) become TOO REAL for someone to read? Then I have acheived my goal. Because we KNOW they are not all having sex and drinking whiskey and fighting in hallways, but if I can make you think that they are? Yay. Me.

Its all fantasy. Its all creativety. Its all for the prettah.

My (at the time) bf asked me two questions one day ... if I was to have dinner with David *dies 1000 deaths* and he found out that I wrote RPS about him, what would I say?

I would tell him to stop acting like he sleeps with Chris, if he doesn't want people to think that he does.

And if David asked me to stop, would I?

Yes. Of course. Dude. If DAVIDFUCKINGBOREANAZ called me up and asked me to stop writing RPS about him I would print off all my stories, delete my files and have a stroke. In that order. But yes, only for him.

So there you have my two cents.

**loves you in that good RPFS style**

[stoney321.livejournal.com]

There is a disconnect that I make internally about it being "real" as well. And I get what you are saying (and man, do I strive for that with the E/H fics that are taking over my head) about making it seem SO real that you have a hard time with the line.

And, maybe THAT'S the point of RPS? To try and blur that line between real/not? Because that means you got the characterization down, yes? And I raise my Zippo in solidairity to the idea of the prettah.

And man, if you had dinner with Dave? And you were talking about sexy stories? AND YOU DIDN'T ACT THEM OUT WITH HIM AND TAKE PICTURES??? Honey, *I* would delete your fics and journal. Ha ha ha!!

Man, I love you so hard! Why did it take us so long to find each other?? *cries and clings*

[smashsc.livejournal.com]

It's not that RPS squicks me just that I don't (usually) read it for a few reasons:
1) My extended circle of people I know and people who know people I know is huge. Some of those people either have RPS written about them or travel in circles with people who do. So some of it bothers me in much the same way reading about the sex life of anyone in my expanded social circle would. (this mainly applies for musician, politician, sports people fic but also some actor fic.)

2) I just don't see the need to read or make up fictional stories about actual people. You've know me, I have stories for days that are, at least, mostly true. RPS somehow runs contrary to that in ways I'm not sure I can delineate.

3) I rarely see RPF/S that hits my kinks anyway so those other two don't come into play that often because I wouldn't read alot of it if was fiction.

All of that notwithstanding occasionally I'll see a story that hits one of my buttons and I'll read it and (sometimes) like it. *shrug* All rules are relative.

[stoney321.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I can see your point. If *I* was friends with... Orlando Bloom, for example. And I knew him to be who he REALLY is, and we came across a bunch of fic that was so far off the mark... ANd had him... fucking a seal. yeah, that would bother me.

But. As a celebrity, how much do they pay attention to this, care about it, expect this kind of stuff and shrug? Not to make an excuse, more to just speculate.

But if something doesn't do it for you, it just isn't your bag. No harm no foul.

[beadattitude.livejournal.com]

Well, my take on it is that sometimes? It really sucks. And then I have to run away, run away.

Mostly because something so out of character happens and then it's like I hit a huge pothole on the road to steamy lovin'. My backside is sore from hitting the gravel, and I just want to go home and eat ice cream.

Now, your EM/HC fic for some reason seems utterly plausible. Possibly because you're an amazing writer and have made the flawed, interesting, confused people and not two dimensional fuck toys that will literally nail whatever's handy into the mattress.

Because the other stuff makes me tired, just like it makes me tired in fan fic. No, Wesley would not be wearing a clown suit (thong, rubbernose, silly wig, big shoes) while Angel quotes Monty Python translated into Fyarl while schtupping Gunn, who is quacking like a duck. I may exaggerate.

I guess I have a fine line of what's in character and what's not, and that goes for the imaginary lives of real people.

[stoney321.livejournal.com]

Okay, so not deserving THAT praise, but I'll gobble it up with thanks. But. I know JUST what you mean about creating these mindless fuck-dolls that bang into other bodies, be it FF or RPS. If I wanted that shit, I'd turn on Skinamax.

I have an idea in my head (with bullet points!) on what the characters are, be they the actor or the fictional character, and I get weirded out sometimes with fic. Because I wonder how the hell they got THERE, you know?

So. Movie star vs. TV star? A line? A barrier? DOn't really care one way or the other? Is it just a particular pairing that gets you going? Inquiring minds wanna...

[mirasol.livejournal.com]

Okay. Let's see.

RPS doesn't squick me, it just doesn't really grab me. I might well write a whole load of pairings in my fics, but they've got to be ones that I can see as bi - which is why you probably won't ever see a Gunn/anyone story from me. Most of the rest of the guys I can see that way, even if others don't.

Now, when I translate that to RPS I just don't feel I know the people well enough to make that distinction, so it's difficult for me to get into the stories. Or maybe it's that I know the characters they played too well. Because, you see, I've known them for years...
*shrugs*

[stoney321.livejournal.com]

Yeah, so it's about the person/character "doing" it for you. I get that, and it's that way for me, too. They have to be characters/people I care about, or why bother?

But, having said that, I foolishly hated "Connor," made myself write a story about him, and have loved him ever since. But I get your point, and *high fives you*

[likeadeuce.livejournal.com]

I think I've explained this before -- I haven't read much RPS, so there could be something out there that would prove me wrong. But generally I don't care about the real lives of actors; they generally don't have any relationship to the characters I enjoy seeing them play, and frankly I feel like there is usually more about their personal lives out there than I care to know. (Tom Cruise/Katie Holmes anybody? I am ACTIVELY AVOIDING information about this relationship and have still heard more about it than I can imagine anyone ever wanting to know.)

And if RPS tries to pretend that these people AREN'T movie stars, rock stars, etc, that they are just ordinary people, then I'm thinking, "No, that's just original fic where you've decided that X character looks like and shares a few traits with Y actor."

Now maybe if I followed more about actors and was more familiar even with their public personae, to say nothing of their "real" personalities, I might feel a little differently. I mean OK -- occasionally some actor's Daily Show appearance might give me thoughts about what he and Jon could get up to after the camera went off (cough cough - Russell Crowe -- cough cough. OK, he went straight home and threw a phone at a bellhop. But that just makes it a better story). Generally speaking, though, not so much. I don't suppose this answers your question at all?

[stoney321.livejournal.com]

I've not come across any RPS that denies the person is Actor/Musician, whatever, so I wouldn't want to read *that,* either.

What about... say you found out that Stephanie Romanov and Alexis had a tryst before he got serious with Aly? Or... Jon Stewart and Alexis like to hang out, and maybe got a little high and got... feely? Okay, now I just want to write that. Ha!

And you DID answer the question which was a Yay or Nay. (There were follow up questions depending on the previous. :-D)

[winterlive.livejournal.com]

For a while, reading BtVS/AtS RPS squicked me out. Now I write in the_shag_pile. How did this come about, you ask? Good question!

I like character fic. Buffy and Angel's crews already had personalities in my head, and I was afraid that if I read David fic, then Angel would start to take on those characteristics, or vice versa - I was afraid the lines would blur in my head, which would not be good.

I was wrong.

Like any other fic, the secret ingredient is good writing. Reading DB/CK no more rubs off on Angel/Lindsey than terrible A/L fanfic does. If you have a well-defined character that makes me interested and invested (read: stoney321's Hayden/Ewan OMG!) then I don't care. I'll read it, I'll like it. It will, of course, subtly affect the way I see that pairing from then on, yes. That is a downside. Like Kita and Fod's Jinnie Marsterheiser, which is the perfect example. But I think what that means for me is that I just won't accept requests for fic based on that pairing unless I get a bunny of my very own. Once I have that (my own idea) I'm usually all right for characterization.

La la la! Hi, Stoney!

/babble

[stoney321.livejournal.com]

YES!! Character fic! And right: David and others in the_shag_pile are completely their own. They aren't the TV characters (which, according to some threads is why people don't LIKE RPS) and that's what makes or breaks it for me, too. If I don't care about the character on the page (screen, whatever), then it doens't matter if it's Spike, Cap'n Underpants, Bill, whatever. RIGHT RIGHT RIGHT.

"I think I won't accept requests for fic based on that pairing unless I get a bunny of my very own." YES. I may *want* to write it, but it ain't happening no matter how much I want to please that person. But sometimes... just thinking about WHY I won't, makes me want to try...

HI, TOOTS!! *squishes you*

[felisblanco.livejournal.com]

I'm afraid the 'Why RPS?' question would get the same lame answer from me as 'Why fanfiction?'. Because I like it. Because it's fun and hot and makes my stomach do little flip-flops. Because I get bunnies biting my heels and if I don't write what they're telling me PMS will be nothing compared to my stressed out mood. Because I do care. I care about the characters but I also care about the actors. In the stories I write or read I feel their pain and their happiness and sometimes even their sweaty panting orgasms. Perverted? Wrong? Immoral? Maybe, but according to some people we're all going to hell anyway and I'd rather have fun the time I have before I get there. (And preferably after.)

It does work a whole lot better with TV characters because yes, we feel like we know them. We've been watching them for years on screen and followed their private and public life off screen. They're a bit like family. If your family was a very incestuous one. *g* The only movie actors that hit my pervy little RPS heart are Dom and Billy from LOTR. Don't know why those two work, they just do. I mean, they're not even attractive but for some reason I find the idea of them together very sexy.

There was a time, very, very long ago(about a year) that I didn't read AU because it was all about the vampires to me. A lot cleaner and there's biting and forever yours means literally. Spangel 4evah!!! Then I read one AU human story and that was enough to convince me. Same thing with RPS. I can't remember what story turned me or why I chose to read it but I am very glad I did.

I write RPS quite differently from regular fanfic. For one thing there's a whole lot more swearing. Don't know why but in RPS 'fuck' pops up everywhere. Also they're constantly drinking and smoking weed and being well, fucking mean. My RPS doesn't in general end well, even if most of my fics do. It's all about the pain. And the rejection and the jealousy and the 'you know I can't leave my wife' and 'no one can find out'. I mean, how can it end well when, if it's all true, it's all behind closed doors? And baby, in my fantasy it's all true. Well, the few happy parts anyway.

Do I feel guilty? Actually no. The chances of any of them wandering in and reading my stuff are very slim. But if it happened and I got a phonecall asking me to please take them down I would probably do it. And then post them somewhere else. *g*

Who hasn't fantasized about actors? The difference is we write those fantasies down for others to enjoy.

PS. Damn, that got long!

[stoney321.livejournal.com]

YEEAARGH!! Break-through on this topic. RPS is the ULTIMATE FANFICTION. It surpasses the character and moves into the brain of the creator of the character! But, it will be limited to our imaginings, true, but still.

And it's funny you mention the mean/swearing in RPS, because I think I do it, too! Huh.

And yeah to people have been fantasizing about actors for a long time. But we have a public place to share it, instead of holed up in our room with a copy of Photoplay and a Big Chief Tablet.

*kisses and twirls you for bringing my breakthrough out*

[cityphonelines.livejournal.com]

RPS? There is no wrong there. Well, of course I don't think so; I've written some. With Nick Brendon. And Sue liked it.

A lot of the CK/DB/JM squicks me, but for other reasons. I think the difficult thing about RPS is that you never know if the "characters" are OOC. And it weirds some people out. Now QaF RPS is just BEGGING to be written.

Random side note: One of my BFRLs randomly bought me Another Day in Paradise w/VK yesterday. She doesn't even know who he is, she just said, "Well, it was on sale, I read the synopsis and thought of you." How cool is that?

[stoney321.livejournal.com]

OMG. It's the movie with his enormous cock. What an awesome gift! Heee!! And I need to buy Life as a House so I can get inspired to write the Ian/Hayden fic that WANTS TO BE BORN.

you write GOOD RPS. blurry lined RPS. See above for why that makes you the winner.

*smooch*

(frozen) What's in a name?

[http://users.livejournal.com/_sharvie_/]

It's all about names for me.

I rarely read anything not fanfic these days. Dresden is about it. Recently I came across an author that removed the Buffyverse names and replaced them with original character names, to make the fic an "original fiction". Same story, same words, different names. I didn't read it and even tried to track down the older "fanfic" version.

I want to read about Spike not James. I am a James fan, but I am so much more a Spike fan. The character is the one I want to read about. I tried RSF, it was a James/Michelle one. Got to the two of them making it to his trailer and nope, couldn't do it.

But I love manips, the sexier the better. But as long as the artist says, "Yadda, yadda, fake 'n all that" I'm fine with those, so it isn't really a privacy thing. I mean, come on, I've got the Dallies for crying out loud, I don't think I'm entitled to sit here and shake my finger at anyone.

And RPF/RPS is the same thing. Although I do find it interesting that the het side of the pool really looks down on it, while the slash side is sort of okay with it. Granted there are people on both sides who view things differently but that was the impression I got. *shrug*

There are other issues, like, what I like to read and such. I just don't want to read about an actor. Actors are boring, neurotic, and self-centered. Now, give me a Spander AU about actors and we're cool. *shrug* The names really do make it or break it for me.

So even though I know these aren't the actors...that's what the header says, so that's what I'll think while reading it, and that's the problem I have. I don't want to read about real people, especially when I love the angst, drama, and horror fics. I don't want to see that happen to "real people".

But other than that I don't really get it. I just know what I like and what I don't. And I don't like RPS, it even squicks me if I let it.

But if you like it, go for it. I'm not going to tell someone they can't do something and then turn around and do something just as "evasive" or whatever the anti-RPS people say about privacy and such. You know what I mean. Cause I'm so not giving up my Dallies!

(frozen)

[stoney321.livejournal.com]

Sure! So you are onboard with the character love and that'll do you fine, I thank you.

But... actors are boring, neurotic, and self-centered... That's what makes me LOVE them! *pets the spazzy, pretty men*

:-D

(frozen)

[julissak01.livejournal.com]

If actors are okay to suject themselves to the public eye, then RPS is something that should come about pretty naturally. This discussion has been forced through the dryer so many times, that it's falling apart at the seams. The reason being, obviously, that some people are too ignorant (no offense to anyone here, because just by giving your honest opinions towards the matter proves that you aren't ignorant, at least) to look at things from a different perspective. And why do I suddenly feel like I'm contradicting myself? ::pokes::

I've heard 'And while I myself do not support the Everyone Should Talk About Hayden Christensen And His Gay Penis Movement that seems to be going down right this very moment on my livejournal friends page, this does not mean other people shouldn't. It doesn't even mean I condemn it, either; it simply means I just can't see my way towards condoning it' more than I can stand. Yes, I'll admit that I think RPS is a bit morally ambiguous even in the right light, but it's just about specification. While some give it a try and test the waters, others scurry away like it's the Black plague or something.

It's just fiction, people. About pretty boys sexing each other up, and when you look at it like that, it's pretty much like regular character fiction. Fic blatherings should be coerced into something magnificent, not cut apart ito separate, meaningless categories (though placing works of fic into categories maintains a certain level of stability, imho) that make people more weary of trying something new out.

Ah, Stoney. ::shares her crack with you::

(frozen)

[stoney321.livejournal.com]

Hang on... for the record, this has been mostly about my reasoning (mentally) for why I'm okay with Movie Star RPS over TV Star RPS. Some folks have chimed in that it's just not their thing, but no one's condemning anyone for liking it.

I have kewl folks on my flist, yo.

Now, EntreNous and I talked briefly about why some ELEMENTS of RPS are bothersome (like, people delighting in the alcoholism/re-hab of Nicky Brendon. We both find that loathesome.)

So. Tell me your thoughts on what parts of RPS are upsetting/satisfying/avoidy?

*pokes you, hands you kitten to pet while you think*

[entrenous88.livejournal.com]

I first came across rps in a google search that led to NFL-slash. And I thought omg! and skittered away from the computer still into my chair, handily crashing into a wall. It just seemed wrong as hell to write anything featuring real people.

Okay. So then I joined LJ, and ended up trying to understand what "communities" were -- I followed links from here to there to everywhere, and found something called dantes_tour_bus. NB/KD. I'm not even sure that I knew it was that pairing -- there was next to nothing revealed in the userinfo. But I asked this person "rubywisp" (hee!) if I could join, and she said yes, and omg, twins, NB..... And it hit probably some of my more sekkrit kinks at the time -- brothers, often teenage brothers, exploring, testing things out, having relationships that were certainly about competition and love and frustration that sometimes included physical intimacy as well. It just hooked me completely. Especially at a time when I was trying to get anything featuring Xander as a character, and any other project -- movie, commercial, interview, anything -- featuring NB, rps was like this rich resource of more of what I wanted.

It did not at all hurt that there were damn good writers turning in work at that community, and for that pairing. ahestele. rubywisp. _dellamore. glossing. The writing pulled me in, and as a community of writers/readers/interested parties, the stories featured different manifestations of those characters, yet there was a kind of common ground or "canon" built that some of the work embraced, some of the work departed from, some of the work engaged obliquely, some explicitly...

So when there's a sense of community/canon/repertory being built, to me it's easier to become immersed in a pairing. And if the pairing hits certain issues that hold fascination, well, even easier.

I've written rps. I've written more rps than has seen the light of day, but the one longer one I've posted worked for me as a fictive piece because I did lots of research and fleshed out the character of the pov-character while writing and editing and redrafting. There were some strong connections between my character and the rl person. But there were differences too, differences that emerged as a matter of course as I revised the story and refined the style and envisioned circumstances in which I'm really quite sure he never participated.

In a way, I'd think of it as more similar to historical fiction than anything else. RPS takes key elements, key traits, speech patterns (of course, this is good and researched rps, which is what I'd prefer to read -- something entirely built up that makes the characters almost original characters is fine, but it's not what I'm looking for), and imagines those figures in different or familiar situations. Fictional situations. Put a good writer into the formula, and it's absolutely worth reading.

Additionally, part of what allows me to read rps and enjoy it much of the time (see my comments above to Sue about one instance in which I can no longer read it) is that I see actors who appear at cons and in photo shoots and in interviews not as a full and honest 100% genuine transmission of who they are, but as a public persona (I won't go into whether or not people can project themselves as they truly are -- larger issue for a much more ambitious day). But personae are as much characters as fictional characters are, and I can completely feel fine with riffing on those types of characters, discovering them in the works of others, and considering how they might react placed in particular situations and worlds.

I should probably edit this before posting. But, eh, here you go!

[stoney321.livejournal.com]

No! No editing! I like the likening of RPS to historical fiction. And people don't seem to have a problem with that, generally, yeah? Which makes me wonder if it's not the S of RPS. Among many things. (NFL slash? Really?)

And you're spot on with the good writers, the churning out of interesting story lines, characters, building of canon with each installment... The ones I've gotten sucked into are just what you discribed.

And I mentioned above in the Sue thread that I agree about somethings being upsetting for me. NB = rehab, for SURE.

Ithink the whole canon being built is what makes me love the EM/HC fic right now. It's all fresh, exciting, being made RIGHT NOW. There's an immediacy and a hunger that I've missed in fandom. Make sense? Oh, and they kissed in public. :-D

[crayonbreakygal.livejournal.com]

**hands you a cough drop**

I generally don't read any kind of RPS/F fic. I've only read you and eloise_bright's stuff because you're on my flist. Would I seek it out? Probably not. Does it squick me? Not so much as make me a little uncomfortable. There's enough fanfic and original fic out there to keep me busy.

So as I said, just not my thing. I ready your stuff because you're an amazing writer (hey, just read the "Annie" parady people). You always bring something different into the mix, whether it be parody or angst.

I really don't care about most of these people's lives. Ruins the expectations I guess. You want all these people to be nice and whatnot. What if they are not? Does that ruin it? Probably. I think it's fine to fantasize about them though. Nothing wrong with that. Because unless we really know them, it still will be fiction.

My biggest question is why Alexis Denisof can't dress himself for public. See, my questions aren't that deep. So RPS doesn't squick me. Keep on writing what comes into your head.

P.S.--Older kid walked out of the house this mornig with a mustard colored shirt and bright yellow shorts. ::sigh:: Why me?

[crayonbreakygal.livejournal.com]

I "ready" your stuff? God, I really need to make sure there are no typos.

[stoney321.livejournal.com]

Beth, there is a comm you HAVE TO SEE:
700slash

It's so wrong, it's right. TRUST ME.

Orphanages in Calcutta don't turn out ZOMBIES. They turn out VAMPIRES. Who fall in love with their FATHERS. Hel-LO! It's like your brain has a disconnect or something.

*jazz hands*

[its-art.livejournal.com]

RPS/RPF doesn't bug me. Whatever people want to do, they can do. I mean, I write stories with OCs as major characters. A lot of people don't like those, so whatever people like, they can do.

Personally, I don't dig on it. I mean, I think James and Vincent are gorgeous and I lust after them shamelessly. But I'd rather write and read about Spike and Connor.

[stoney321.livejournal.com]

Right on, sistah!

*lusts in my heart, too*

[allegraconbrio.livejournal.com]

Wow. So many comments. I've just skimmed. So, likely someone has already made my point. I'm not squicked by RPS, haven't ever ranted against it, and am rather amused by the vehement, oh so holy, it is a rape of the *soul* rants against it. But frankly, I am not so interested in the actors in the shows I adore. I like the pretty, no doubt about it, but I am much more interested in the characters the pretty actors play. I am and will likely always be a Spike and Wes fangirl. But though I have seen the actors in the flesh, and have been most charmed, it is the characters they portrayed that captured me. AD, quite frankly blew me away, he is a charismatic, and lovely man. And I was nearly week kneed in is presence. But the thought of slashing him with DB, or hetting him up with Amy Acker? Doesn't so much appeal to me, neither does the thought of getting a peek into his an Alyson's bedroom. However, I have no problems imagining Wes in a myriad of sexual and other situations, that is what captures me. I am not sure why this line is there for me. I would love to have a drink with many of the actors that play my fave characters, but the imagining for me is in the world they act in, not in their personal life.

*shrug* not sure why that is. And it isn't really a TV vs. Movie thing either. Though I do admit, that I have had dreams about Luke Perry (yes, I admit it, I liked Dylan on 90210, damnit, I think I may have ruined my entire statement above, of course the dream centered around me being in Army basic training with him which is so strange, no sex, just sweating. Not even a smooch. lmao) and John Cusack (also not sexy. I was just hanging with him. Damnit) . Eep. But still don't want to write about either one of them, or read RPS. snerk.

/weirdo.

Hee.

[stoney321.livejournal.com]

So you know? I have a big crush on John Cusack, and have for going on 20 years. Heee!!

And I'm glad you felt comfortable enough here to say you have your kinks, and that'll do you fine. EXACTLY. And thanks for not thinking I'm bad for *liking* the RPS.

*kisses you chastely*

[viciouswishes.livejournal.com]

I haven't figured out my interest yet. If I'm like 'who the fuck is that?' and someone's just totting them as pretty, I probably won't read it. If someone is parading her/his Tom Cruise RPS as hot, not going there; however in parody, I love.

And I totally believe that celebs are make believe.

[stoney321.livejournal.com]

Celebs ARE make-believe. Which totally works for me in the grander scheme of things.

[somecandytalkin.livejournal.com]

Whooo HOOOOOOOOOOO!
I'm #100!!!!!
Just wandered in to say were we thinking of getting together THIS weekend?
Also, for me it just depends on if I lahk the story.

[stoney321.livejournal.com]

HI!! Want to? I forgot it was a holiday weekend. Do y'all have plans? Am I stupid? kinda?

And right on with the story. No story? No read.

[stoney321.livejournal.com]

Well, if you skimmed the other posts (and there are a lot, so no worries if you didn't!) yo'd see that it's about 60/40 with the majority being NOT INTERESTED in RPS. So, you don't need to feel so alone!

But this post wasn't about drawing a line in the sand, it was wondering the "why" vs the "why not." So for you, it feels invasive and rude to do as such. And those are your feelings, and you are certainly entitled to feel that way.

But those of us who pay attention to the "HOllywood Machine" and see that so much of the "public view" that we are fed is made-up? I guess we feel like we aren't REALLY writing about the ACTUAL person. No one is sitting outside the bedroom door and taking notes or film. It's all make-believe.

But you are certainly allowed to say how it makes YOU FEEL here. There is no judgement here. And I hope you can extend that courtesy? Thanks for chiming in with your thoughts!!