All right, smart English types, help me out

[stoney321]

I read the phrase "deep-seated" and was taken aback. I have ALWAYS thought that the phrase was "deep-seeded." Here's my thinking on why:

deep-seeded racism. Meaning, the racist ideas, etc. are buried deep, hence the seed metaphor. Yes, I am a gardener, this is how I think, lol.

So, if I'm wrong, what does "seat" refer to? Is this one of those turns of phrase that came from something else, a la, "mad as a hatter?" I'm corn-fused.

Also, I went to a fancy schmancy restaurant last night and had the Chef-Tasting/Pairing Course (3) and it was... oh my god, it wasn't good. This guy thought he was on Top Chef and I wanted to be Daddy Tom telling him why it was terrible. And the wine!! So mediocre and! And! The dessert course I got a Bailey's over ice (it's a WINE tasting) and a creme brulee soaked in coffee liquer. Now in theory, that sounds awesome. In execution it was sugar shock and soupy. Huh. (My main course was a fabulous chimichurri sauce over a Cowboy Rib eye. I would like to point out that I'm kinda small. Kinda. A cowboy Ribeye is almost 2 pounds of beef. Good. Lord. And it was a fatty cut of meat, too. I told him that it would have been better to match the sauce - which was perfect - with something small like a fillet Mignon, esp. a buffalo fillet.) Eh. The service was lousy, too. Hotel ZaZa is great, but I can't recommend their restaurant, Dragonfly. Three stars when they put on airs like they're 5. No, you're not.

ETA Check this article that compares the two: deep-seated and deep-seeded. THE PLOT THICKENS! (And thank you everyone that is chiming in.)

Comments

[mangosorbet007.livejournal.com]

Well, it sits at a very deep place in your mind, its seat is deep down, so: deep-seated. No?

[stoney321.livejournal.com]

Yeah, and my line of reasoning has it as a seed. But I'm clearly wrong, I just am amazed at how long I've thought it was one thing!

[a2zmom.livejournal.com]

definitely deep-seated. Maybe the same lineage as the seat of emotions?

I hope the restaurant wasn't overly expensive but I suspect it was.

[minim_calibre]

Yep. Same lineage, using a now-obsolete meaning of the word that lingers in a handful of expressions.

[stoney321.livejournal.com]

Absolutely fascinating. I love etymology, but confess to only knowing a small portion. This is great to know, thank you!

[stoney321.livejournal.com]

Oooh, that's interesting.

And it wasn't really expensive, but it wasn't cheap. The food was alright, some of it was terrific. But it was very amatuerish. (I love sounding like a food snob. Excuse me while I eat some cheetos... Hee.)

[gillo]

I think it's from mediaeval stone-masonry - you "seat" a brick or stone in the mortar, so if it's "deep-seated" it means very firmly embedded, not going to come out any time soon.

Sorry your fancy meal wasn't.

[stoney321.livejournal.com]

OoooOOooooh. That makes total sense. (And seeing as my paternal line is made up of masons going back centuries, you'd think I would have thought of that!)

Eh. You have to weed places out, and now I'll know. (And I have some Dallas peeps on my flist, so maybe I'll spare them some grief.)

[denelian.livejournal.com]

this is pretty much exactly what i was taught, in both a class on Chauncer, and a class on early Middle-Ages language shifts.

[fabrisse.livejournal.com]

I like your take, but it's deep seated. I've never seen it hyphenated.

[stoney321.livejournal.com]

I read an article in the NY Times that used it hyphenated. It just made sense in my head the way I've been using it, but that's something I need to get straight. :D

[darksideofstorm.livejournal.com]

My google-fu is strong today. (http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/001815.html)

[stoney321.livejournal.com]

I love you.

[darksideofstorm.livejournal.com]

*grins* you're very welcome.

[darlas-mom.livejournal.com]

I don't know you, but I wanna chime in with love, too, because you have a Morgan icon.

[darksideofstorm.livejournal.com]

Criminal Minds is DEFINITELY something to share love on. *grins* Especially the bits involving Morgan.

(Are you waiting on tenterhooks for season five? *flaily OMGHOTCH!flail*)

[darlas-mom.livejournal.com]

Hee! You have awesome icons for it, I love that scene so much!

( ::squeaky hamster noises of flail:: OMGHOTCH! He's okay. He's okay, he's okay, he's okay. He has to be. He's Hotch.)

[darksideofstorm.livejournal.com]

Oh man, me too. But I love anything with Reid/Morgan interaction, period.

*dies at your icon*

(I KNOW. *flailing Mcflail* I'm clinging on to the theory that he has a second gun. He always has a second gun. And he's a fast draw! *clings*)

[menomegirl.livejournal.com]

I've never heard the phrase "deep-seeded".

*runs to read your eta*

[stoney321.livejournal.com]

It's interesting how technically my way is correct, it's just not the accepted (albeit as mentioned above, archaic and obselete) phrase.

I love this kind of stuff.

[menomegirl.livejournal.com]

Okay, so your way would be the correct terminology. But...that just sounds so wrong to me LOL!

[stoney321.livejournal.com]

Well, linguists would say that YOUR way is the correct one, mine just can't be argued away as nonsense (like "as a pose to" instead of "as opposed to" - one is clearly correct there) because my words still make sense.

Isn't it crazy how fluid language can be in certain cases? Love it.

[darlas-mom.livejournal.com]

Definitely deep-seated. I see everybody else has offered etymology and meta links on the topic, so I haven't really got much to add!

That restaurant sounds terrible. :-( I hope it didn't cost you an arm and a leg to go there. Also, random aside: what do you do for a coffee liqueur hangover?

[stoney321.livejournal.com]

For that hangover? Def. the hair of the dog that bit you, but make it an ICED coffee.

How sad that I know the hangover fixers for all the various ways you can wreck yourself... lol.

[denelian.livejournal.com]

when you are done with your other book, you should write this one. it could be, say, "101 ways to Cure Your Hangover (and how you got it to begin with)"

i bet you'd make a million bucks off of that! (and it might still be worth something when you get it - assuming that the recession doesn't get any worse)

[justhuman.livejournal.com]

Interesting on the entymology. I have the same kind of issue with speak your piece - say your part of the discussion.

The first thing I always think is speak your peace - "clear your conscience and say what's on your mind.

[stoney321.livejournal.com]

Ahahaha, I have heard that one, too! And there's a lyric beauty to the incorrect usage of "peace," isn't there?

[justhuman.livejournal.com]

There is. And I wonder if I got there from speak now or forever hold your peace

[moosesal.livejournal.com]

It's deep-seated. And Merriam-Webster will back me up on that. *mwah!*

[stoney321.livejournal.com]

Well, yes. And no. :D Check that link out, it's really interesting! (But the accepted terminology is seated. Mine is just not the old fashioned, archaic expression, even though it makes grammatical sense, it's not what is the common use.)

But if you were my editor, I would change it. :D

[moosesal.livejournal.com]

You're damn right you'd change it. ;-)

[stoney321.livejournal.com]

Hahahahaha! Always respect/fear the editor!

[harmonyfb.livejournal.com]

I'm under the impression it's 'deep-seated'. Though I suppose 'deep-seeded' would not be altogether weird.

[stoney321.livejournal.com]

Yep, according to some of the learned on the comment threads, you are right there. On both! (The commonly accepted terminology is seated, even though seeded makes sense, it's just not the accepted phrase. Harumph, says I. I plan on breaking new ground with my incorrectness! Lol.)

Top Chef love

[gabzilla.livejournal.com]

Daddy Tom!!! <3 Love it, now I'll always be calling him that.

Re: Top Chef love

[stoney321.livejournal.com]

I don't know who casts a more withering look, Tom Calicchio or Nancy Pelosi! :D

Re: Top Chef love

[pickledprose.livejournal.com]

LOL at this, my vote goes to Pelosi! That looks at Wilson almost made me wet my pants!

Re: Top Chef love

[pickledprose.livejournal.com]

um.... look is what I meant.

[dampersnspoons.livejournal.com]

Deep-seated. Because people with deep seats have rully big butts. Or they like hammocks.

In fact, I often refer to a woman with a large back bottom as a deep-seated woman of [affluence].

Blood on the Highway.

[stoney321.livejournal.com]

I often refer to a woman with a large front bottom as mother.

Blood on the Highway.

(That is never going to get old. Never. Let's test that theory!)

[midnightsjane.livejournal.com]

Like most everyone else here, I say it's deep-seated. As in the seat of power, the seat of emotion, etc.
That link was fascinating, showing how pronunciation can actually change words and their meanings!

[judetwee.livejournal.com]

Have you eaten at Herrera's? There are only two of them in Dallas and Carrollton (my old town) but I think it's a pretty famous tex mex place. Maybe that will ease your gastronomical pain. =)

Also, This place (http://www.local-bakery.com/38705/Ranch-IV-Donuts.html) has the best donuts in the world.

[anelith.livejournal.com]

There's a weekly column in the Globe that covers etymological questions like this one -- they can be fascinating! Human beings create language in such interesting ways. I like that the writer of the Globe column is not one of the very strict Right vs. Wrong sorts when it comes to usage, etc. More along the lines of the article you link to.

It's good that you spoke up to the chef and said what you thought, at least about the cut of meat.

[stoney321.livejournal.com]

I don't jibe with the "it's only this way" thing, even though there are word usages that drive me up the wall. (The abuse of the word impact, when people mean affect, for example.) But the English language is constantly morphing, it has to be accepted.

Anne, that steak was the size of my face!! Too much, too much. And fatty, bleh. But the sauce was absolute perfection.

[oatmellow.livejournal.com]

I've always said/written deep-seeded.

I've also always said 'butt naked' instead 'buck naked'